What price would you pay for this 09 turbo?
#17
^ that remains to be seen, but I doubt it......in fact the opposite may be true.
I still don't think the hit on an 09 is gonna be that much. There is no way that car will go for 90k. I've seen comparable 07s still fetch 90+k.
I still don't think the hit on an 09 is gonna be that much. There is no way that car will go for 90k. I've seen comparable 07s still fetch 90+k.
#18
That is the case with every car when the mfr. rolls out a "new and improved" model, esp. if it's their flagship model. Big deal, there is no way you can look at these things as investments (they're really just toys!) and should go in full well knowing there will be depreciation with or without a new model coming out. That being said I believe that car will go for over $100k, as it should.
#19
i think a lot of people who comment on these cars do not really understand the product. conundrum-you say without the pdk, that is a steep price for the 09 turbo? if you understood turbos, you would know the obvious large fact that pdk was not available on ANY 09 turbo-and pccb was ordered on less than 10% of all turbos. 09 was available with 6 speed manual or tiptronic with buttons, no paddles. an no, absolutely no, pdk in turbos. so, if you don't understand the product, it is very difficult to accuretely comment on price. to the rest of you, this car was about a 150k msrp car-it is 1 year old. 2010 cars (turbos) are not even out yet. this car is obviously worth over 100k-all of you who comment that it is worth 90-95k have no idea what you are talking about. average mileage for a porsche is 7500 miles a year-this car has 10,000 miles-it is only 2500 miles high for 1 year. you all think that this 150k car has depreciated 60k in 1 or less year?
I sure am glad you spoke up. I thought that after studying the prices of '07s and 08's for the past three months I had missed something. For those "extra" miles you get and extra year of warranty and less depreciation than an '07 or 08. I 've see many (nice) '07s going for low to mid 90's. I'm pretty sure this is a $100k + car.
#20
I based my comment on having bought a 997TT in the past month with way lower miles and better optioned (for me anyway - mine came with PCCB). I would say to a potential purchaser don't be too concerned about the model year - all the 997TTs are still under the original warranty, and the changes between model years are insignificant. All I am saying is you can find a similarly optioned 997TT with less miles for a lot less money. Take a look at the inventory that is currently listed for sale - there are hundreds of 997TTs available, so the supply/demand equation favors the buyer right now.
#21
Doc - I certainly respect your opinion and understand where you are coming from. I'm only giving my personal perspective - all the benefits you mention for the '09 just don't make any difference whatsoever to me, so they have no additional value for me. I also tend to keep my cars for a long time (10 years or so) so I'm not worried about resale value, either. I don't buy cars that I can't afford, so I figure even if the car is worth $0 after ten years, I'm OK with that. I am very happy that I was able to get a very low mileage '07 with every option and color combination that I really wanted for a relative bargain. I was happy not to have to spend an additional $10,000 (or whatever the delta is) to get an '08 or '09. And that's all I'm suggesting to potential buyers - you can get a fantastic 997 Turbo for a relative bargain if you can do without some of the bells and whistles. The engines in the '07, '08, and '09 are identical if I'm not mistaken.
I've also looked at the 997.2 TT and I would have to spend $50,000 more to get a car similar to mine. I understand all the improvements that have been made, but I can't justify that increase to myself - the 997.1 is all the car I'll ever need.
And I'm certainly not trying to be critical of buyers who can really appreciate the improvements in the newer cars - I'm just not that skilled of a driver.
I've also looked at the 997.2 TT and I would have to spend $50,000 more to get a car similar to mine. I understand all the improvements that have been made, but I can't justify that increase to myself - the 997.1 is all the car I'll ever need.
And I'm certainly not trying to be critical of buyers who can really appreciate the improvements in the newer cars - I'm just not that skilled of a driver.
#22
Doc - I certainly respect your opinion and understand where you are coming from. I'm only giving my personal perspective - all the benefits you mention for the '09 just don't make any difference whatsoever to me, so they have no additional value for me. I also tend to keep my cars for a long time (10 years or so) so I'm not worried about resale value, either. I don't buy cars that I can't afford, so I figure even if the car is worth $0 after ten years, I'm OK with that. I am very happy that I was able to get a very low mileage '07 with every option and color combination that I really wanted for a relative bargain. I was happy not to have to spend an additional $10,000 (or whatever the delta is) to get an '08 or '09. And that's all I'm suggesting to potential buyers - you can get a fantastic 997 Turbo for a relative bargain if you can do without some of the bells and whistles. The engines in the '07, '08, and '09 are identical if I'm not mistaken.
I've also looked at the 997.2 TT and I would have to spend $50,000 more to get a car similar to mine. I understand all the improvements that have been made, but I can't justify that increase to myself - the 997.1 is all the car I'll ever need.
And I'm certainly not trying to be critical of buyers who can really appreciate the improvements in the newer cars - I'm just not that skilled of a driver.
I've also looked at the 997.2 TT and I would have to spend $50,000 more to get a car similar to mine. I understand all the improvements that have been made, but I can't justify that increase to myself - the 997.1 is all the car I'll ever need.
And I'm certainly not trying to be critical of buyers who can really appreciate the improvements in the newer cars - I'm just not that skilled of a driver.
#24
I appreciate the civilized discussion -- genuinely. Next question, assuming Excellence is right about the huge improvements in the 997.2 TT, can the dynamic motor mounts be retrofitted to the 997.1 cars? Same question for an ECU that reduces the ADD / hyperactivity of the diff as it relates to feeding the front wheels? Because, as I see it, if those things can be retrofitted for "mere thousands" of dollars, then a used 997.1 TT will be a lot better relative value. Personally, I want one enough to do something pretty bad.
#25
I appreciate the civilized discussion -- genuinely. Next question, assuming Excellence is right about the huge improvements in the 997.2 TT, can the dynamic motor mounts be retrofitted to the 997.1 cars? Same question for an ECU that reduces the ADD / hyperactivity of the diff as it relates to feeding the front wheels? Because, as I see it, if those things can be retrofitted for "mere thousands" of dollars, then a used 997.1 TT will be a lot better relative value. Personally, I want one enough to do something pretty bad.
#26
There has been alot of discussion about the dynamic motor mounts on the Gt3 forums as the early mk2 gt3s did not have them. Since the mounts activate in a binary fashion - on/off the thought was to simply tie it into the "sport" button signal which should be an easy task. Then again those who have the dynamic mounts so far have not reported feeling much difference between the modes. Also consider that a dynamic mount is possibly going to fail quicker than a non-dynamic mount, and that there is a tremendous amount of torque output from some of the modded turbos which may exceed the capacity of the dynamic mounts (speculation).
Now the issue of the differential programming is another issue. The thought of the differential being flashed to the more progressive response (as I understand it) of the '10 would be an attractive possibility. I think one might be able to assume the ECU in the '10 and pre '10 turbos use the same inputs regarding rpms, wheel speeds, angular velocity/yaw/etc, braking input so I would postulate that it could be done. I would like to see if someone from GIAC might be able to work on this if Porsche does not add some kind of firmware/software upgrade bulletin.
Now the issue of the differential programming is another issue. The thought of the differential being flashed to the more progressive response (as I understand it) of the '10 would be an attractive possibility. I think one might be able to assume the ECU in the '10 and pre '10 turbos use the same inputs regarding rpms, wheel speeds, angular velocity/yaw/etc, braking input so I would postulate that it could be done. I would like to see if someone from GIAC might be able to work on this if Porsche does not add some kind of firmware/software upgrade bulletin.
#27
Doc and Eclou,
I agree that the new larger displacement motor with higher static compression and lower boost, along with the PDK, was a big part of Excellence's love affair with the new car. But I like the old motor and 6-speed just fine, so I'll ignore for now. As for retrofitting the dynamic mounts, I suspect that you would notice the difference a lot more on the Turbo (compared to the GT3) because it is so much heavier and "softer" all around. Anyway, I know I could add firmer (static rather than dynamic) mounts and firm up the suspension and make a 997.1 TT very "right" for me and how I drive. So that just leaves the diff, and the need to calm things down. So somebody please make the ECU equivalent of torque split / active diff "Ritilin"...maybe even add PTV while you're at it. Either way, I love the car...very close to a perfect year-round DD in Portland, OR.
I agree that the new larger displacement motor with higher static compression and lower boost, along with the PDK, was a big part of Excellence's love affair with the new car. But I like the old motor and 6-speed just fine, so I'll ignore for now. As for retrofitting the dynamic mounts, I suspect that you would notice the difference a lot more on the Turbo (compared to the GT3) because it is so much heavier and "softer" all around. Anyway, I know I could add firmer (static rather than dynamic) mounts and firm up the suspension and make a 997.1 TT very "right" for me and how I drive. So that just leaves the diff, and the need to calm things down. So somebody please make the ECU equivalent of torque split / active diff "Ritilin"...maybe even add PTV while you're at it. Either way, I love the car...very close to a perfect year-round DD in Portland, OR.
#28
Why not just buy some semisolid motor mounts for a few dollars, they're dynamic all the time. I also hear that the old 996tt x73 motor mounts are a direct swap into the 997tt, they are much firmer than stock.
If you want to add a lsd, go wih a good aftermarket unit like the guards, the stock lsd will be fried in no time anyway.
If you want to add a lsd, go wih a good aftermarket unit like the guards, the stock lsd will be fried in no time anyway.
#29
Why not just buy some semisolid motor mounts for a few dollars, they're dynamic all the time. I also hear that the old 996tt x73 motor mounts are a direct swap into the 997tt, they are much firmer than stock.
If you want to add a lsd, go wih a good aftermarket unit like the guards, the stock lsd will be fried in no time anyway.
If you want to add a lsd, go wih a good aftermarket unit like the guards, the stock lsd will be fried in no time anyway.