TT Surgeon

Nice!
I'm a baaaad influence!

OldGuy

I just read the R&T version in the Grocery store while I followed the wife around. (Not much to do here when its 106 -the grocery store was nice and cool) But the article was a joke. I mean I read the
Aston-997TT-Audi R8 article and the way they have the scoring setup up they can manipulate the
whole contest with the always technical "got to have it factor" scoring section or the Completely objective "fun to drive" scoring section. If I remember correctly Porsche won every catogory then
lost those to to lose the contest. I would worry about what they said about losing the rear end really.
Also IIR they always like the "new kid on the block" in these head to head matchups. Given how long the Aston and 911 have been around how could they not pick the brand new R8. I think it
looks funky. I dont think that will be a timeless design like the other 2.

tdub

does your 997 tt skid out on sharp corners if you lift off the throttle or brake?

any car will, just at different times.

When you upset the balance of the car in a turn you WILL have problems.

When you're at 100% adhesion in a turn there's nothing left.

If you're at 80% there's 20% left for making corrections when you make a mistake in judging a turn.

tw

2k7997tt

The answer to the poster's question...definitely no.

But...massage the accelerator a little to heavily while cornering and the rear wheels will loosen up. (this only occurred after the GIAC/headers/exhaust mods)

ignacio

walter rohrl mentions oversteer in sharp corner during this video

http://coochas.com/porsche/Resources/997TTRohrlTest.wmv

of course he thinks it's fun!

ignacio

this is the answer i received on renntam:

"Porsche screwed up with the PTM setup, trying to make the car more "raw". Incidentally, many serious Turbo drivers in Europe are throwing out their 997TT AWD systems and replacing them with 996TT AWD systems . "

posted by "crash" in eu

eclou

Walter mentioned slight oversteer when braking sharply at the end of the course. I find it hard to believe that anyone has actually removed the AWD system on the 997 and replaced it with the 996 system. I doubt the electronics would match up at all.

StickShift964

hes the man.

B-Line

Hey Guys,

I recently had the TT out at Buttonwillow. I was jumping back and forth between a 993 C2S with a track setup and Mr. Animal.

I can tell you this, the TT hooks up like no other car I have ever driven.
I did find myself turning off the PASM though. It starved the car of power in some places where a bit of controlled slide is necessary. If your driving on a track and the car doesn't get a little loosey-goosey, hate to say it, but your probably driving too slow.
- If the PASM is not kicking in and annoying you, you need to step up the speed a bit.

Now to the point, what a lot of you guys are talking about is "Snap Oversteer". Which is different than "Trailing Throttle Oversteer" which is different than plain old vanilla, Oversteer.
When Porsche says, "Oversteer in the car has been dialed out", well yes, it has, compared to the old 911's. But that does not mean that you can't induce oversteer. And quite frankly, a good driver, needs to induce some oversteer. This can generally be done by snapping off the throttle (which I do not recommend.) or by trailing throttle.

Getting used to it in a 480hp car is a bit scary. But the 997 TT performs like NO other vehicle I have ever driven in my life. It is scary good.
A little oversteer, is not a bad thing... You have to get the nose pointed in the right direction somehow. But Unlike Porsche's of the past, simply lifting off the throttle is not going to cause the 911 to come around on you.. Snapping off the throttle on the other hand... I'd be careful..

And as someone stated above, who's lifting in the turns anyway?

B

eclou

Nice eval B. I think you hit it on the nose. You need to commit to driving the car hard when on track, which can be psychologically tough since it is $130k and makes the corners come up faster than most people can possibly imagine

B-Line

Thanks Ec,

It was only my second track day with the TT. The first day was at the aformentioned track, Willow Springs, which is VERY popular because of it's proximity to Los Angeles.
I can tell you this, I hated driving the TT at Willow Springs. But then again, I HATE WILLOW SPRINGS BIG TRACK.. I have never not liked a track before, but somehow, I actually loathe Willow "Springs". It's super fast, all 3rd and 4th gear.. But it's not technical, only has 9 turns, and is all about cajones. There are sooooo many better tracks in Cali. I avoid Willow Springs like the plague.
I can understand why test drivers, on that track especially, didn't feel comfortable with the TT. It's a very unsettling track, and in my opinion, not very fun- very un-nerving.

But when I got the TT on Button Willow (about 45 min north of Willow Springs), it was a DREAM of a machine. To be honest, the car is so fast and so smooth, I had no idea where to brake for the turns????? I am not used to having that much speed at the end of the straight, and even after two days of driving, I found it difficult to find a good visual marker for braking. The TT brakes sooooo well, that it's tempting to go deeper and deeper with every lap. But then, as laps get faster and exit speed gets faster, those braking zones become still a slight mystery? -- Repeat after me, "trail braking is my friend, trail braking is my friend, trail braking is my friend... OH ****..... Whew..."

I guess I'm a bit lucky, the cars that I usually drive on the track are open wheel, open cockpit, formula R/T 2000. If you can drive one fast, you can drive, just about anything. They come around on you super quick and you are counter steering through every fast turn. You are in a controlled slide, a large portion on the time.

When in the turbo with PASM on, I found that as soon as the car would enter the zone of a nice, smooth, controlled drift, the PASM would kick in and choke the throttle. - So my opinion of the system is, it's very good, up until the point where skill level allows you to extend the performance of the vehicle past the standard of street grip/novice driver.

Now with the oversteer, it seems that the car will Oversteer, even just from throttle input, but once the car reaches a certain slip angle, the PASM chokes it. - again, you have to point the nose somehow..

- So what I have gotten in the habit of doing on the track is: The first two to three laps, I leave the PASM on. I am warming up, getting my eyes up, getting in tune with the car. (I'm not racing, so I don't mind taking a few warm up laps, it's good for the tires and brakes as well.)
As soon as my speeds start getting up there, and I am pushing past the levels of adhesion for the tires, I wait for the PASM to choke me once or twice, then I turn it off for the rest of the session.
-- Yes, you have to drive more carefully, you don't have a cpu making judgement calls for you anymore, but you also don't have the throttle being chocked in the sweepers.

For street use, I would never turn off PASM though. Driving at those slips in a 911 Turbo on the street would just be stupid.

B

AAHTT

That's exaclty what happened to me and similar to what I had described in an earlier post. I agree with you 100% except that it is PSM and not PASM (which is something different). Thanks for the write-up, it confirmed my personal experience with the TT although my PSM was also causing understeer until I turned it off.

B-Line

Thanks for the clarification (PSM not PASM)

It's hard to keep track of all the different systems on all the different cars..
How bout we just call it traction control ?



B

TT Surgeon

B ,could you post a in car video of the tt sometime, enjoyed the writeup. Heading to pocono for a little short track warm up, then the glen for two days. Can't wait!
c

Whoopsy

The journalists are a hard bunch to please, they complain about the oversteer in 911s prior to 996, when Porsche tuned out all that and make the 996 push more, they complain it's too 'safe', it lost the 911-ness. So this time around Porsche give the 997 more 911-ness and guess what, they complain again about the car being unstable and stuff.

If only they use the time they spent complaining on learning HOW to drive............

Now Walter Rohl had a hand in tuning the handling, if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for us.