Cobb AP Handheld in my CPO 2012 Turbo S
06-21-2020, 12:26 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes, the aftermarket free-flowing cats have 100 or 200 cpi (cells per inch) as opposed to the factory cats which are something like 600 cpi. So the free-flowing cats have bigger openings and are less restrictive, there's less resistance to exhaust flow. Stef at Europipe has written about this a lot, search some of his old posts if you want to learn more. I've never heard of aftermarket dynamic engine mounts but maybe someone else has. You can easily check to see what's there. The mounts are visible to the right and left of the airbox, if they have a cable plugged in they are almost certainly stock and have't been replaced with static mounts. My car doesn't shake at idle at least that I've noticed. Other have posted that they can see the passenger seat slightly vibrating so it wouldn't concern me too much unless the idle was rough.
You can see the intercooler fins from the vents at the bottom of the bumper but that won't tell you too much. The 997.2 has improved intercoolers from the 997.1 and older turbos often upgrade. Aftermarket intercoolers typically are all metal as opposed to the factory end caps which are plastic. I think you can see it by removing a fender liner next time you have a wheel off.
Based on the parts you've mentioned the previous owner spent about $4.5k in engine upgrades, that's a good thing!
You can see the intercooler fins from the vents at the bottom of the bumper but that won't tell you too much. The 997.2 has improved intercoolers from the 997.1 and older turbos often upgrade. Aftermarket intercoolers typically are all metal as opposed to the factory end caps which are plastic. I think you can see it by removing a fender liner next time you have a wheel off.
Based on the parts you've mentioned the previous owner spent about $4.5k in engine upgrades, that's a good thing!
06-21-2020, 12:39 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Like Akkord29 said maybe they replaced the cats with stock as required for emissions (here in CA the aftermarket cats are not smog legal). I wouldn't be overly harsh with the dealer as my goal would be to get them to send me the aftermarket cats they may have removed. A good set of aftermarket cats like HJS costs over $2k. I'd also try and get them to send the Fabspeed headers they removed as they aren't cheap ($1.6k) and the cracks are probably repairable. Offer to pay shipping costs.
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Big Swole (07-02-2020)
06-21-2020, 01:00 PM
#18
Instructor
Cnair, seems you keep hitting the jackpot. You have a stage 2 Cobb car WITH PDK tuning too ($2k of upgrades alone) with CPO— shhhhhh keep quiet 🤫. You lucky dog. Don’t fuss too much about it. Many questions have been answered already.
My advice would be to be to change the map to stage 1 93 octane as you have stock cats and Stock headers now. It’s easy to do in like 10 mins. (Also put in 93 octane top tier gas—I’m partial to shell v power 93). If you want later to Go back to stage 2, just go Catless or a put in high flow cats.
I would also use the Cobb to data log Your car cruising and doing a few power pulls to make sure nothing funky is going on as dealer removed aftermarket cats which are needed for stage 2. Cobb has instructions on how to do it and plenty of threads here.
Not sure what vibration your car has at idle, but share a video and we can look. Mine is smooth at idle, although can have a short spurt of toughness at cold start up and then it settles nicely. the engine is a bit noisy although not quite as much as the metzger .1TT.
Finally, you can confirm when the spark plugs and coils were last changed. All service should have been done to CPO, but dealers can be squirrelly. Tuned cars eat through spark plugs. It will also let you see how the plugs look which tells a lot of the health of the engine. It looks from pics you have car a bit apart, so spark plug change is just a few more steps away. There is one in the drivers side towards front of car that is hard to get to, but the right tools and wobble wrench extensions make it doable. You tube has a few good videos.
edit: just noticed form your pics that the spark plugs are already out. Nice. How they look? Have pics of them?
My advice would be to be to change the map to stage 1 93 octane as you have stock cats and Stock headers now. It’s easy to do in like 10 mins. (Also put in 93 octane top tier gas—I’m partial to shell v power 93). If you want later to Go back to stage 2, just go Catless or a put in high flow cats.
I would also use the Cobb to data log Your car cruising and doing a few power pulls to make sure nothing funky is going on as dealer removed aftermarket cats which are needed for stage 2. Cobb has instructions on how to do it and plenty of threads here.
Not sure what vibration your car has at idle, but share a video and we can look. Mine is smooth at idle, although can have a short spurt of toughness at cold start up and then it settles nicely. the engine is a bit noisy although not quite as much as the metzger .1TT.
Finally, you can confirm when the spark plugs and coils were last changed. All service should have been done to CPO, but dealers can be squirrelly. Tuned cars eat through spark plugs. It will also let you see how the plugs look which tells a lot of the health of the engine. It looks from pics you have car a bit apart, so spark plug change is just a few more steps away. There is one in the drivers side towards front of car that is hard to get to, but the right tools and wobble wrench extensions make it doable. You tube has a few good videos.
edit: just noticed form your pics that the spark plugs are already out. Nice. How they look? Have pics of them?
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PV997 (06-21-2020)
06-21-2020, 01:13 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Like Akkord29 said maybe they replaced the cats with stock as required for emissions (here in CA the aftermarket cats are not smog legal). I wouldn't be overly harsh with the dealer as my goal would be to get them to send me the aftermarket cats they may have removed. A good set of aftermarket cats like HJS costs over $2k. I'd also try and get them to send the Fabspeed headers they removed as they aren't cheap ($1.6k) and the cracks are probably repairable. Offer to pay shipping costs.
06-21-2020, 01:23 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Cnair, seems you keep hitting the jackpot. You have a stage 2 Cobb car WITH PDK tuning too ($2k of upgrades alone) with CPO— shhhhhh keep quiet 🤫. You lucky dog. Don’t fuss too much about it. Many questions have been answered already.
My advice would be to be to change the map to stage 1 93 octane as you have stock cats and Stock headers now. It’s easy to do in like 10 mins. (Also put in 93 octane top tier gas—I’m partial to shell v power 93). If you want later to Go back to stage 2, just go Catless or a put in high flow cats.
I would also use the Cobb to data log Your car cruising and doing a few power pulls to make sure nothing funky is going on as dealer removed aftermarket cats which are needed for stage 2. Cobb has instructions on how to do it and plenty of threads here.
Not sure what vibration your car has at idle, but share a video and we can look. Mine is smooth at idle, although can have a short spurt of toughness at cold start up and then it settles nicely. the engine is a bit noisy although not quite as much as the metzger .1TT.
Finally, you can confirm when the spark plugs and coils were last changed. All service should have been done to CPO, but dealers can be squirrelly. Tuned cars eat through spark plugs. It will also let you see how the plugs look which tells a lot of the health of the engine. It looks from pics you have car a bit apart, so spark plug change is just a few more steps away. There is one in the drivers side towards front of car that is hard to get to, but the right tools and wobble wrench extensions make it doable. You tube has a few good videos.
edit: just noticed form your pics that the spark plugs are already out. Nice. How they look? Have pics of them?
My advice would be to be to change the map to stage 1 93 octane as you have stock cats and Stock headers now. It’s easy to do in like 10 mins. (Also put in 93 octane top tier gas—I’m partial to shell v power 93). If you want later to Go back to stage 2, just go Catless or a put in high flow cats.
I would also use the Cobb to data log Your car cruising and doing a few power pulls to make sure nothing funky is going on as dealer removed aftermarket cats which are needed for stage 2. Cobb has instructions on how to do it and plenty of threads here.
Not sure what vibration your car has at idle, but share a video and we can look. Mine is smooth at idle, although can have a short spurt of toughness at cold start up and then it settles nicely. the engine is a bit noisy although not quite as much as the metzger .1TT.
Finally, you can confirm when the spark plugs and coils were last changed. All service should have been done to CPO, but dealers can be squirrelly. Tuned cars eat through spark plugs. It will also let you see how the plugs look which tells a lot of the health of the engine. It looks from pics you have car a bit apart, so spark plug change is just a few more steps away. There is one in the drivers side towards front of car that is hard to get to, but the right tools and wobble wrench extensions make it doable. You tube has a few good videos.
edit: just noticed form your pics that the spark plugs are already out. Nice. How they look? Have pics of them?
06-21-2020, 03:47 PM
#21
Racer
Look on the intercooler silicone/rubber tubes and see if you see a 997 part number. Most aftermarket intercoolers have larger hoses that I have seen. Mine was built by Champion and the hoses have Werks logo on them.
06-21-2020, 08:21 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
06-21-2020, 09:19 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Short Idle Video
Here is an idle video..the tach needle has very slight movement and I can feel some vibrations on the driver's seat, almost like a lopey cam.
06-22-2020, 08:53 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So I finally attached the Access Port and confirmed that the car had a stage 2 93 octane tune and a PDK Sport tune 
with stock cats. I actually called Cobb and they were tremendous...spent quite a bit of time with me on the phone walking through stuff. In the process of walking me through this the Cobb Tech support guy asked me to uninstall the tune and then try reinstalling stage 0 or Stage 1. I had a oh **** moment when it said "communications failure" and put the AP in recovery mode. When I tried to recover it would not do it since AP was not communicating. I realized I had BT on through the PSM as I was taling to the tech support guy. Also checked my Ctek and it was in maintenance mode. I turned off the radio and BT and reset the Ctek to charge mode and then the whole thing worked "Phew"!.
I basically flashed it to Stage 0 and drove it around for a bit logging boost and A/F etc. Looked like it was boosting about 1.1 bar or so which I presume is stock boost? I did try and contact the service manager at the dealer I bought the car from but there has been no response. I am wondering how they are going to handle this since the car is CPO.
My options are as follows since the car is CPO:
Just to reiterate...COBB WAS AWESOME! They didn't have to help me but their support guy Aaron spent close to 40 mins with me on the phone.
with stock cats. I actually called Cobb and they were tremendous...spent quite a bit of time with me on the phone walking through stuff. In the process of walking me through this the Cobb Tech support guy asked me to uninstall the tune and then try reinstalling stage 0 or Stage 1. I had a oh **** moment when it said "communications failure" and put the AP in recovery mode. When I tried to recover it would not do it since AP was not communicating. I realized I had BT on through the PSM as I was taling to the tech support guy. Also checked my Ctek and it was in maintenance mode. I turned off the radio and BT and reset the Ctek to charge mode and then the whole thing worked "Phew"!.I basically flashed it to Stage 0 and drove it around for a bit logging boost and A/F etc. Looked like it was boosting about 1.1 bar or so which I presume is stock boost? I did try and contact the service manager at the dealer I bought the car from but there has been no response. I am wondering how they are going to handle this since the car is CPO.
My options are as follows since the car is CPO:
- Uninstall the AP and load the factory map back on (it was backed up on the AP)
- Leave it Stage 0 since that is simulated stock
- Flash Stage 1 and enjoy it a bit
Just to reiterate...COBB WAS AWESOME! They didn't have to help me but their support guy Aaron spent close to 40 mins with me on the phone.
Last edited by Cnair; 06-22-2020 at 10:15 PM.
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Big Swole (07-02-2020)
06-22-2020, 10:26 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Your list forgot buying free-flowing cats and flash it back to stage 2, that gets my vote. Great to hear Cobb was so helpful as I'm looking at them myself. My Speedtech 200 cell cats and 3" muffler delete arrives on Wednesday.
Regardless of what you do I would document everything including records of your calls to the dealer and emails. Last thing you want is them claiming you installed the tune and trying to weasel out of a CPO claim. There are a few comments I've read claiming a dealer can tell if a tune was installed even if flashed back to stock. I have no idea if this is true, it would be good to get a confirmation. Bottom line it depends on your risk tolerance. At one extreme you send them a certified letter telling them the car came tuned (undisclosed to you) and demand they flash it back to stock and put it in writing that the CPO will be honored. Then you sell the AP. On the other end you keep it to yourself, enjoy the tune, and flash it back to stock if there's an issue where you need CPO and hope for the best. I don't think there's an option where the dealer says keep the tune and CPO but who knows. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Regardless of what you do I would document everything including records of your calls to the dealer and emails. Last thing you want is them claiming you installed the tune and trying to weasel out of a CPO claim. There are a few comments I've read claiming a dealer can tell if a tune was installed even if flashed back to stock. I have no idea if this is true, it would be good to get a confirmation. Bottom line it depends on your risk tolerance. At one extreme you send them a certified letter telling them the car came tuned (undisclosed to you) and demand they flash it back to stock and put it in writing that the CPO will be honored. Then you sell the AP. On the other end you keep it to yourself, enjoy the tune, and flash it back to stock if there's an issue where you need CPO and hope for the best. I don't think there's an option where the dealer says keep the tune and CPO but who knows. Maybe someone else can chime in.
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Big Swole (07-02-2020)
06-22-2020, 10:36 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well I have documented the issue via email and text so they are aware of it. I also told them I had to remove the stage 2 tune since that was potentially unsafe with the stock cats. I really didn't want to drive it around with the wrong tune and the dealer I bought it from is 400 miles away. Who knows how they will react to me flashing it to stock. I have a screen shot of the loaded tune on the car as listed here. Let's see what happens.
06-23-2020, 12:42 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
Don't work so hard to turn a plus into a minus...
Flash the stage 1 tune onto the car and silently thank your clueless dealer for the $2,500 gift.
Once you adjust to that, upgrade the cats (or delete)l and move on to stage 2.
Flash the stage 1 tune onto the car and silently thank your clueless dealer for the $2,500 gift.
Once you adjust to that, upgrade the cats (or delete)l and move on to stage 2.
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Big Swole (07-02-2020)
06-23-2020, 02:36 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Agree. If they’re being cagey just get it on record that you have presented them the info and make sure to get them to confirm that despite their negligence that it’s still CPO. They may be trying to get out of it.
I'd flash to stage 1 and enjoy it. You could put some 200cel cats on but I wouldn’t bother.
I'd flash to stage 1 and enjoy it. You could put some 200cel cats on but I wouldn’t bother.
06-23-2020, 07:32 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Last edited by Cnair; 06-23-2020 at 07:56 AM.
06-23-2020, 07:33 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Agree. If they’re being cagey just get it on record that you have presented them the info and make sure to get them to confirm that despite their negligence that it’s still CPO. They may be trying to get out of it.
I'd flash to stage 1 and enjoy it. You could put some 200cel cats on but I wouldn’t bother.
I'd flash to stage 1 and enjoy it. You could put some 200cel cats on but I wouldn’t bother.