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I posted this on facebook in the turbo/GT2 group and they encouraged me to post it here as well as they thought some of you might be interested in the results from the dyno tests of the do88 intercooler which I have done on my 997 turbo tiptronic. I did the tests one the same day with the car still strapped to the dyno, so no differences due to car placement on the dyno roller. I removed the rear bumper so I could easily swap HW on the dyno. Two powerful fans were placed to blow air on the intercoolers since the test cell fan did not provide cooling to the sides of the car. Engine lid was open during all runs.
The intercooler kit is this one: https://www.do88.se/en/artiklar/pors...ooler-kit.html
I actually bought the Big Pack, but I only did the dyno testing on the intercoolers (I had extra hoses for this). I thought that it would be too many hours on the dyno for all, and I might not be able to test all in one day. From my last dyno test I learned that ambient conditions can interfere a lot so I was very determined to test with same conditions to get some actual data. Being an OEM calibrator I know the importance of that, but my managers don’t agree and won’t let me run my car in our emission laboratory =) .
Car specs:
2.5” exhaust with 100 cells catalytic converters. Muffler with internal X-pipe (ferrita). It has a cut-out but it was closed during these tests.
BMC airfilter in stock airbox
300 kPa MAP sensor after the throttle. Stock TMAP is still used for air charge temperature.
do88 intake pipes, which I actually tested before and can be found here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-997-1-tt.html
Fuel:
98 octane (RON).
Tune:
My car runs Syvecs S6+ PnP ECU calibrated by me. Target boost is 1.0 bar for all dyno runs. This was not my final numbers, but I thought it would be a good reference for the intercooler comparison. I did not change anything in the calibration and let the closed loop lambda feedback handle any airflow changes related to the HW swap.
I did three dyno runs with each hardware and the plots are the average from these runs. I did not lock the dyno at low speed and was calm on the accelerator pedal so boost build-up is later than normal. Since OEM IC’s struggle a lot at higher engine speeds I did not think this was an issue.
Dyno:
Dyno used is a single axle DynoJet, so I had removed the prop shaft before the tests. With only RWD, sport mode cannot be enabled and I will have a lower shift point than my set engine speed limiter. Since this dyno shootout I have upgraded my TCU calibration by ES Motor and I now have a higher shift point. Good improvement along with shorter shift times and raised torque limitations.
All runs were made on fourth gear with 1:1 ratio. Average sweep speed is 441 rpm/sec, and that is not controlled but actually what I get with this particular dyno at this power level.
Results:
I think that the numbers below speaks for them self. 15 degrees C lower air charge temp, 10% better intercooler efficiency and finally +29 whp and + 24 wNm. All values from the dyno are uncorrected. Average ambient temperature was 16,6 deg C for OEM IC’s and 16,0 degC for do88. Looking at the boost graph it is clear that I did not run with identical boost, especially at higher engine speeds. 5-10 whp extra if I would have updated the boost controller also. However, the overall picture is still the same with lower air charge temperatures.
Overall impressions of the kit:
I really like do88 from my last purchase from them with the intake hoses. I would say similar to other hoses on the market, but without the very annoying Porsche tax that exists on some products. Their new intercooler kit is a lot more money, but I felt they had the data to prove it. Since I knew I was going to a big turbo build, the popular 997.2 IC’s were not so appealing to me. The data shown pointed towards do88, and intercooler performance is always beneficial.
The parts arrived 2 days after I placed my order in two well-organized boxes. I read the manual and started with preparation of the carbon ducts and adding the supplied sealing. Install was quite straightforward. It included cutting in the chassis, but only a bracket for exhaust systems on N/A engines, so no actual loss there. I would not mind if the hoses from IC to Y-pipe were marked left or right, but other than that no problems at all.
I have now installed the entire kit, including GT3 throttle, and I might test those bits separately also. This will be on higher power level since I have gone to EFR7163 turbos.
I hope this helps some of you and your decision-making. My data is also similar to the supplied data by do88, which is always nice. Let me know if you would like to see some more data, the DynoJet data or other stuff. I try to be transparent and my tune is not magic nor secret. I tried to keep it as simple as I could.
Some images. I also have the DynoJet data, but I could not do an average calculation in their SW so I exported all data to Excel. Let me know if you would like to see it.
Really excellent, objective data. Flies in the face of a few users on here who somehow think 997.2 metal clones are superior to these. Thanks for time and effort you put in to collect and tabulate the data for us!
Really excellent, objective data. Flies in the face of a few users on here who somehow think 997.2 metal clones are superior to these. Thanks for time and effort you put in to collect and tabulate the data for us!
What '997.2 metal clones' are you referring to? The OEM Porsche 997.2TT/GT2RS intercoolers? I suspect not but hoping you can clarify.
Agreed, this is good imperial data and it's a shame that manufacturer's don't provide more transparent data on their 'upgrades'. Then again, if manufacturers did objective testing and supplied the data, there would probably be less aftermarket parts being offered
A great test, that I think many people are looking for, would be the OEM 997.2TT/GT2RS intercoolers vs the world. Everyone knows the 997.1TT intercoolers are abysmal, it's almost a guarantee that anything is better than those hunks of heatsoak. Would love to see a test just like the OP did, but against the (orders of magnitude) better OEM coolers that 95% use - exceptional validated performance and actually cheaper from the dealer than most aftermarket offerings.
Lastly, how do intercoolers 'add' whp? Isn't this a case of 'preserving' whp on long pulls or heavy duty cycle (ie at the track) where less efficient coolers begin to rob power in the form of higher inlet air temps?
Intercooler discussions are quite interesting to me. I have the oem 997.2TT/GT2RS units and have tracked my car extensively, they appear to work very well according to the datalogs. However my only other mods are Speedtech 3" catted x-pipe and Kevin @ UMW custom tune.
Good info OP, thanks. The Intake temp chart is interesting.
Originally Posted by cstyles
Lastly, how do intercoolers 'add' whp? Isn't this a case of 'preserving' whp on long pulls or heavy duty cycle (ie at the track) where less efficient coolers begin to rob power in the form of higher inlet air temps?
Yep, the cooler the air, the less timing pull and ignition retard you get. (along with other factors, too..)
Really excellent, objective data. Flies in the face of a few users on here who somehow think 997.2 metal clones are superior to these. Thanks for time and effort you put in to collect and tabulate the data for us!
What '997.2 metal clones' are you referring to? The OEM Porsche 997.2TT/GT2RS intercoolers? I suspect not but hoping you can clarify.
Agreed, this is good imperial data and it's a shame that manufacturer's don't provide more transparent data on their 'upgrades'. Then again, if manufacturers did objective testing and supplied the data, there would probably be less aftermarket parts being offered
A great test, that I think many people are looking for, would be the OEM 997.2TT/GT2RS intercoolers vs the world. Everyone knows the 997.1TT intercoolers are abysmal, it's almost a guarantee that anything is better than those hunks of heatsoak. Would love to see a test just like the OP did, but against the (orders of magnitude) better OEM coolers that 95% use - exceptional validated performance and actually cheaper from the dealer than most aftermarket offerings.
Lastly, how do intercoolers 'add' whp? Isn't this a case of 'preserving' whp on long pulls or heavy duty cycle (ie at the track) where less efficient coolers begin to rob power in the form of higher inlet air temps?
Intercooler discussions are quite interesting to me. I have the oem 997.2TT/GT2RS units and have tracked my car extensively, they appear to work very well according to the datalogs. However my only other mods are Speedtech 3" catted x-pipe and Kevin @ UMW custom tune.
Thank you!
I agree that data shown by many aftermarket companies are not that great.
do88 have the comparison data on their web page vs 997.2. This test was to look at dyno results with an aftermarket ECU since stock ECU will detect what is going on and adjust accordingly. Or in other words, stock IC would have to have a tune that request more torque than is actually reached, and when the conditions improve, like colder intake air, more timing could be added and more torque could be optained. (OEM Bosch ECU is torque based, not power).
Intercoolers add the possibility to add more base ignition timing and also final ignition timing (after corrections and knock retardation). They also add power since colder air is denser, so for a given boost pressure more air will flow into the engine. Air = power, if the same lambda is obtained. Furthermore, colder air will generate lower EGTs and less need of enrichment to keep turbine temps in control. This could be quite the reduction in fuel economy, if someone cares about that during full load.
But overall it is just good with as cold air as possible when running petrol. I also think that the 997.2 option is a great product with great value, but not as good as this package.
I played a bit with the data that do88 has on their web page and now we have a pressure drop comparion between 997.1, 997.2 and do88. That is efficiency also, since back pressure will decrease with lower pressure drop. Also charge air temps etc.
Thank you!
I agree that data shown by many aftermarket companies are not that great.
do88 have the comparison data on their web page vs 997.2. This test was to look at dyno results with an aftermarket ECU since stock ECU will detect what is going on and adjust accordingly. Or in other words, stock IC would have to have a tune that request more torque than is actually reached, and when the conditions improve, like colder intake air, more timing could be added and more torque could be optained. (OEM Bosch ECU is torque based, not power).
Intercoolers add the possibility to add more base ignition timing and also final ignition timing (after corrections and knock retardation). They also add power since colder air is denser, so for a given boost pressure more air will flow into the engine. Air = power, if the same lambda is obtained. Furthermore, colder air will generate lower EGTs and less need of enrichment to keep turbine temps in control. This could be quite the reduction in fuel economy, if someone cares about that during full load.
But overall it is just good with as cold air as possible when running petrol. I also think that the 997.2 option is a great product with great value, but not as good as this package.
I played a bit with the data that do88 has on their web page and now we have a pressure drop comparion between 997.1, 997.2 and do88. That is efficiency also, since back pressure will decrease with lower pressure drop. Also charge air temps etc.
This last graph looks like their "big pack" or with their performance Y pipe. I am not sure the flow / kpa increase is present with just the intercooler change.
This last graph looks like their "big pack" or with their performance Y pipe. I am not sure the flow / kpa increase is present with just the intercooler change.
Correct, good point! I missed this part!
I am not sure either, but if that is the flow with all those parts then it is much higher with only the IC.
Thinking of purchasing but don’t want to have to reflash the ecu. It’s already had an ecu upgrade with the aftermarket exhaust some time ago and loathe to have to have to redyno ?
Thinking of purchasing but don’t want to have to reflash the ecu. It’s already had an ecu upgrade with the aftermarket exhaust some time ago and loathe to have to have to redyno ?
You are fine with a swap in intercoolers with the tune you have. Air charge temperature is measured and compensated for and you will only see gains.
10-11-2018, 05:50 PM
Dyno test of do88 intercooler for 997.1 TT
