997 4.0 RS vs 991 GT3 RS
12-01-2015, 01:42 AM
#46
+1...it's all about enjoying the drive...in 50 years when I hand-down/sell my 6GT2 when I cant drive anymore, anyone think someone is going to care what the mileage is...I won't anyways. 
I'm 25, a SERIOUS car-enthusiast/fixer/racer/etc since first-breath and have almost zero interest in current car offerings, save the P1 and new Miata/Fiat 124(pending a drive). Porsche died with the 997...friends are similar,,,,not a good outlook for the carworld....
I'm 25, a SERIOUS car-enthusiast/fixer/racer/etc since first-breath and have almost zero interest in current car offerings, save the P1 and new Miata/Fiat 124(pending a drive). Porsche died with the 997...friends are similar,,,,not a good outlook for the carworld....
i would drive it too!
in fact one that is in aus was driven a lot, and was involved in a highly-publicised accident many years ago, then sent to woking and repaired at great expense.
same with 4.0 or 996rs at less than 1/20th the cost. i would drive those too, whereas many guys here have now put the car covers on them.
in fact one that is in aus was driven a lot, and was involved in a highly-publicised accident many years ago, then sent to woking and repaired at great expense.
same with 4.0 or 996rs at less than 1/20th the cost. i would drive those too, whereas many guys here have now put the car covers on them.
12-01-2015, 08:15 AM
#47
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Being a current 991 RS owner I am glad to have read your post and objectives.
I was always curious how the 2 cars felt being that they both have 4.0 liter engines.
When I recently drove a 997.2 GT3 I felt the car was much more raw but very underpowered. I especially noticed the lack of power in the low rpm ranges especially the absence of torque.
Do you notice a big power jump from a GT3 to the 4.0 RS?
I was always curious how the 2 cars felt being that they both have 4.0 liter engines.
When I recently drove a 997.2 GT3 I felt the car was much more raw but very underpowered. I especially noticed the lack of power in the low rpm ranges especially the absence of torque.
Do you notice a big power jump from a GT3 to the 4.0 RS?
12-01-2015, 11:11 AM
#48
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I had a 3.8 997 GT3 RS prior to the 4.0 RS. I agree with you that the 3.8 felt underpowered especially in the lower rpm ranges. The 4.0 has so much more midrange punch and kick in your back. It pulls very hard.....to my senses harder than the 991 GT3RS that day. I was amazed at how much stronger it felt. It really is a very special engine. I previously wrote posts about this and how it repeatedly out accelerated a 997.2 turbo from various rolling speeds. Maybe I just got a good one! Lol!
12-01-2015, 11:55 AM
#49
I had a 3.8 997 GT3 RS prior to the 4.0 RS. I agree with you that the 3.8 felt underpowered especially in the lower rpm ranges. The 4.0 has so much more midrange punch and kick in your back. It pulls very hard.....to my senses harder than the 991 GT3RS that day. I was amazed at how much stronger it felt. It really is a very special engine. I previously wrote posts about this and how it repeatedly out accelerated a 997.2 turbo from various rolling speeds. Maybe I just got a good one! Lol!
12-01-2015, 03:08 PM
#50
Being a current 991 RS owner I am glad to have read your post and objectives. I was always curious how the 2 cars felt being that they both have 4.0 liter engines. When I recently drove a 997.2 GT3 I felt the car was much more raw but very underpowered. I especially noticed the lack of power in the low rpm ranges especially the absence of torque. Do you notice a big power jump from a GT3 to the 4.0 RS?
Seems to be the similar differences between 991gt3 and 991rs and 997gt3 and 997rs. Low range power/torque is one of the biggest improvements. Have you driven the 991gt3?
12-01-2015, 03:28 PM
#51
High revving engines will not be able to have much torque in the low and mid ranges. The "breathing" system is designed to allow high revving with the torque coming in at the high end. So, the headers have larger diameters as do the intake manifolds, at low revs there is not enough back pressure to provide torque, it is all wasted in pushing out the exhaust. The 4.0 RSR has almost no torque in the low and mid range. But heaps of it at the top end.
Frankly, I don't understand this infatuation with low end torque - these are not the engines for low end torque. These are high revving racing engines (the Mezgers, not the DFI ones). NA F1 engines idle at 4000 RPM, they have no torque until about 9000 RPM, then things get going, and even so not much - the 3.0 V10 engines had about 260 lb. ft. (350 N/M) torque. Torque is time independent, but power is not. The more "torques" per minute the higher the power, so a race engine makes more torque at higher RPMs, the more RPMs, the more power.
You want torque? Get an Aston Martin - I did - loads of fun but nothing special handling wise or fun wise.
Frankly, I don't understand this infatuation with low end torque - these are not the engines for low end torque. These are high revving racing engines (the Mezgers, not the DFI ones). NA F1 engines idle at 4000 RPM, they have no torque until about 9000 RPM, then things get going, and even so not much - the 3.0 V10 engines had about 260 lb. ft. (350 N/M) torque. Torque is time independent, but power is not. The more "torques" per minute the higher the power, so a race engine makes more torque at higher RPMs, the more RPMs, the more power.
You want torque? Get an Aston Martin - I did - loads of fun but nothing special handling wise or fun wise.
12-01-2015, 04:36 PM
#52
997 GT3 and Rs have the same torque numbers 317 lb.-ft. The RS makes it a little higher in the rpm range 6,750 vs. 6,250 in the base GT3.
12-01-2015, 04:43 PM
#53
997 GT3 and Rs have the same torque numbers 317 lb.-ft. The RS makes it a little higher in the rpm range 6,750 vs. 6,250 in the base GT3.
12-01-2015, 05:53 PM
#54
3.8RS to 991 GT3 (not exactly the same comparison)
The 991 is no longer the same in any way shape or form. Very different experience and different philosophy from Porsche. It's drifted from the original GT3 concept at this point, they should call it something different (not to mention it shares virtually no parts with an actual race car at this point in time). It's so disconnected from the driver, refined, and easy to drive that it is bound to disappoint anyone who loves the 997 for it's race-car like NVH, harshness, and difficulty in driving fast. The 991 is eye watering fast for the people who like to go fast, but you will not have as much fun, learn as much, or feel as proud of your own skills. To me the 4.0 is the pinnacle of a philosophy now retired at VW. They are taking things into a territory where I would look at cars I was never interested in before, like the 650 or the Huracan.
(But I bought a GT4 and am selling the RS....institutionally disturbed I know....maybe I need a 996 Cup car too...)
The 991 is no longer the same in any way shape or form. Very different experience and different philosophy from Porsche. It's drifted from the original GT3 concept at this point, they should call it something different (not to mention it shares virtually no parts with an actual race car at this point in time). It's so disconnected from the driver, refined, and easy to drive that it is bound to disappoint anyone who loves the 997 for it's race-car like NVH, harshness, and difficulty in driving fast. The 991 is eye watering fast for the people who like to go fast, but you will not have as much fun, learn as much, or feel as proud of your own skills. To me the 4.0 is the pinnacle of a philosophy now retired at VW. They are taking things into a territory where I would look at cars I was never interested in before, like the 650 or the Huracan.
(But I bought a GT4 and am selling the RS....institutionally disturbed I know....maybe I need a 996 Cup car too...)
12-01-2015, 07:03 PM
#55
^^^ Agree 100%.
The 991 GT3 was a no go for me when I drove it for a few hours on the track and country. I'm partial to the raw and untamed 996 and 997.1 GT3s. Hell, the gearbox is from the 996 Cup car.
Röhrl said that the 991 GT3 is fast, but it's the car not the driver. Never selling my .1 GT3.
The 991 GT3 was a no go for me when I drove it for a few hours on the track and country. I'm partial to the raw and untamed 996 and 997.1 GT3s. Hell, the gearbox is from the 996 Cup car.
Röhrl said that the 991 GT3 is fast, but it's the car not the driver. Never selling my .1 GT3.
12-02-2015, 12:10 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
Same here!
I came this close to selling my .1 GT3 a couple months ago in order to repurchase an air-cooled G50 Carrera I used to own - but the deal imploded at the very end of the process. Long story. Yes, I was disappointed.
However...
A few days later I questioned if this may have been Divine Intervention at work. As much as I wanted that Carrera back, as nice as it is, it just isn't the pur sang "uber-special" Porsche that the GT3 is. I allowed nostalgia to cloud my judgment. And although I received several post-implosion inquiries regarding selling the GT3, I came to my senses and decided that I would be insane to let it go. Ever.
I've regretted selling a few of the 21 other Porsches that preceded the GT3 and decided not to make the same mistake again. And I realize this post has nothing to do with 4.0's or 991 GT3's. So here goes: I did drive a 991 GT3 awhile back -a very nice car, very fast, very large for a 911 and very uninvolving without the stick. I never drove a 4.0 but I'm sure it would have been a life-changing experience that would have spoiled me greatly.
I came this close to selling my .1 GT3 a couple months ago in order to repurchase an air-cooled G50 Carrera I used to own - but the deal imploded at the very end of the process. Long story. Yes, I was disappointed.
However...
A few days later I questioned if this may have been Divine Intervention at work. As much as I wanted that Carrera back, as nice as it is, it just isn't the pur sang "uber-special" Porsche that the GT3 is. I allowed nostalgia to cloud my judgment. And although I received several post-implosion inquiries regarding selling the GT3, I came to my senses and decided that I would be insane to let it go. Ever.
I've regretted selling a few of the 21 other Porsches that preceded the GT3 and decided not to make the same mistake again. And I realize this post has nothing to do with 4.0's or 991 GT3's. So here goes: I did drive a 991 GT3 awhile back -a very nice car, very fast, very large for a 911 and very uninvolving without the stick. I never drove a 4.0 but I'm sure it would have been a life-changing experience that would have spoiled me greatly.
12-02-2015, 01:02 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
997's only for me as well, I have no interest in he 991 GT3's other than reading about engine failures. however, they are very nice to look at being as large as they are.
My .1 GT3 is on the SharkWerks schedule for a 3.9 and even in its current 3.6 state, I am driving it a lot more than the 3.8RS even though it just feels so much more alive, albeit modded.
My .1 GT3 is on the SharkWerks schedule for a 3.9 and even in its current 3.6 state, I am driving it a lot more than the 3.8RS even though it just feels so much more alive, albeit modded.
12-02-2015, 01:56 AM
#58
Same here!
I came this close to selling my .1 GT3 a couple months ago in order to repurchase an air-cooled G50 Carrera I used to own - but the deal imploded at the very end of the process. Long story. Yes, I was disappointed.
However...
A few days later I questioned if this may have been Divine Intervention at work. As much as I wanted that Carrera back, as nice as it is, it just isn't the pur sang "uber-special" Porsche that the GT3 is. I allowed nostalgia to cloud my judgment. And although I received several post-implosion inquiries regarding selling the GT3, I came to my senses and decided that I would be insane to let it go. Ever.
I've regretted selling a few of the 21 other Porsches that preceded the GT3 and decided not to make the same mistake again. And I realize this post has nothing to do with 4.0's or 991 GT3's. So here goes: I did drive a 991 GT3 awhile back -a very nice car, very fast, very large for a 911 and very uninvolving without the stick. I never drove a 4.0 but I'm sure it would have been a life-changing experience that would have spoiled me greatly.
I came this close to selling my .1 GT3 a couple months ago in order to repurchase an air-cooled G50 Carrera I used to own - but the deal imploded at the very end of the process. Long story. Yes, I was disappointed.
However...
A few days later I questioned if this may have been Divine Intervention at work. As much as I wanted that Carrera back, as nice as it is, it just isn't the pur sang "uber-special" Porsche that the GT3 is. I allowed nostalgia to cloud my judgment. And although I received several post-implosion inquiries regarding selling the GT3, I came to my senses and decided that I would be insane to let it go. Ever.
I've regretted selling a few of the 21 other Porsches that preceded the GT3 and decided not to make the same mistake again. And I realize this post has nothing to do with 4.0's or 991 GT3's. So here goes: I did drive a 991 GT3 awhile back -a very nice car, very fast, very large for a 911 and very uninvolving without the stick. I never drove a 4.0 but I'm sure it would have been a life-changing experience that would have spoiled me greatly.
997's only for me as well, I have no interest in he 991 GT3's other than reading about engine failures. however, they are very nice to look at being as large as they are.
My .1 GT3 is on the SharkWerks schedule for a 3.9 and even in its current 3.6 state, I am driving it a lot more than the 3.8RS even though it just feels so much more alive, albeit modded.
My .1 GT3 is on the SharkWerks schedule for a 3.9 and even in its current 3.6 state, I am driving it a lot more than the 3.8RS even though it just feels so much more alive, albeit modded.
12-02-2015, 10:32 AM
#60
Yes, it seems there is some 'splaining to do for VW. There are more engine failures than I can count on one hand here in Texas in the last 6 months, and the owners are not supposed to talk about it - so I'd guess the problem is much larger than we see.