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No. They are too concerned with what driving gloves to buy, who has the coolest "Martini" graphics, and "Desperately Tracking Ship X" to debate the nonsense posted by the OP. Carry on. Nothing to see here....
So I guess slowly slowly people are accepting the way of the future where " any idiot " can drive a fast car. So my question is : why the Hell has the GT-R been so criticized?! It does exactly that!
I did not drive the 991GT3,but I have a feeling there's a bit of exaggeration in the OP's post...the 991GT3 is no GT-R and it probably still provides some involvement.
Either way,I have no interest in any sports car that " any idiot " can drive fast. I need to feel that I'm working to make it go fast. There will be other cars-much cheaper that I can just use to go from A to B.
drive a GTR then driver a 991gt. you will agree. i cannot put it into elegant prose. but my butt is a good detector of what i like. your butt may vary
Originally Posted by Riz
I drove my friends car today finally. I was able to put in about 25 miles on it. I drove it a mix of about 10 miles highway and off ramps and the rest on a nice loop of slow and fast corners. The roads were fairly smooth with some bumpy sections. Car had a little over 3k miles on it. I am on the list to get the RS version so I wanted to have a go in a regular one. A few impressions:
1. It looks amazing in person. I have never seen one in the flesh. Beautifully aggressive is how I would describe it.
2. It sound really good especially past 6k rpm but not as mechanical as the Mezger. A little one dimensional.
3. Steering feel ok but not great. Not really an issue for me.
4. PDK-S the best dual clutch I have driven.
5. RWS I actually noticed it a few times in very tight 2nd gear corners really pushing it
6. PTV much better than in the 997.2 turbo S, hardly noticeable but something was happening in really fast tight 2nd gear corners. Maybe it was the RWS and the PTV working together.
7. It is faster than anything on real roads. I was driving at ridiculous speeds through the corners while drinking an iced coffee.
8. Any idiot can go fast in this car.
9. Am I an idiot?
10. I am a big idiot therefore I need the RS
The 997 is really the last 911. This is entirely something else.
GREAT, just GREAT. now does this mean you wont ever sell me your low option Rs3.8?????
Originally Posted by 997rs4.0
This is very interesting, I completely agree with above statement! You need to be a good driver to get the most out of any car. The problem with a lot of modern street legal track cars is that they make people feel like any idiot can drive fast. And when things go wrong, it ends really bad because of the speed you carry. So in a way any idiot can drive faster than they should!
yes, some ppl are getting too fast in fast cars for their own good but look on the bright side. darwin will help us. some will parish and breed the smarter next gen... well, i hope darwin is right.... but then there comes me.... so darwin may be wrong..
Originally Posted by Nizer
Isn't this thread in the wrong forum....?
now you are being mean
Originally Posted by Nizer
Rule #1 in my book is make it lightweight. Beyond that almost everything else is up for debate.
yes, you saw my new stripper pic? it's 2680 lbs at 3/8 tank no driver. now if i can borrow your cup engine....
Originally Posted by aussie jimmy
saw my first 991gt3 a few weeks ago.
didn't like it at all.
looks really big and unnecessarily overweight with gratuitous details.
did nothing for me.
the new targa looks 1000 times more elegant as does a 997 gt3.
991gt3 looks like a boy's toy for the cash-up tech noob.
no elegance whatsoever. might be fast, but so are all the previous gt3's.
at least they have style too.
no no no. you are mixing it all up.
7.2 is gryphon. you listen to it, touch it, feel it and worship it then whisper to it.
991 is technics 1200, sophisticated, does everything right and a work horse. it just does it. you dont have to make love to it.. it just does it.
you dont bring your airtangent on oracle delphi to a frat party do u? try to mix songs with that set up....
Originally Posted by MaxLTV
Come on, be fair, that's typical to any new model forum, when people do not have the car, they obsess about such things in anticipation. More "manly" questions about alignment, tire pressures, falling off centerlocks and blown coolant hoses will come later when most people actually get to drive their cars. All that fluff only matters in the beginning. After 9 months with the car, I'm starting to forget what color it is:
i can attest that max is making the 991 brigade proud. he's driving the snots out of the red thing. good work, max! did we show you the 19" wheels we have hidden for our inbound 991?.... next time you stop by, make sure chasen show you and prepare to drool
You are so right. I did not post on 991GT3 forum for those reasons. I did not want to distract them from tracking ships, deciding on the different shades of PTS blue to order(is it mexico blue, riviera blue, gulf blue, cobalt blue, bleu cheese blue?), euro delivery vs picking up here, selling my 14 to pick up a 15 because I don't like the seat belt color I chose. Its better to debate the nonsense I posted on this forum.
Haha. Forgot about the selling of the 14 to snag a 15 because of the seatbelt color. Too funny. Seems like something you would hear from some hairdressers on the chickster forum. And "bleu cheese blue"? That's a classic right there. Love it!!!
991 targa and 50th look beautiful (to me)
flowing lines and elegant.
gt3 has this body kit which doesn't flow (imo)
look at the rear valance, wing etc, it's all wrong. 7.1 was the ****. such elegance.
maybe i'm getting old....
mooty - the gryphon is like 991, jadis is like 997; jewel-like, and sweet.
peter, the cayman does look promising, even a black/black/black gts looks nice.
plenty fast enough for me. not tracking anymore, so fast enough to stay adrift of the traffic here.
i like the old cayman though. details everywhere you look. just like z4m coupe ( even though i hate bmw's)
The 991 is amazing. Fast and easier than the 997. The 997 in particular had such a high mastery curve that the laptime difference between experts and intermediates or newbies was massive (several seconds a lap. Getting within 3s of an expert in a 997 is considered an achievement). Why did it have this curve? The car worked in a very narrow window; and finding the sweet spot where the car turned properly with sufficient speed was very difficult, and then understanding how to be WOT at the apex (or nearabouts) took time. Finally, there was downshifting, which, takes bandwidth, agility and practice.
The 991 eliminates a LOT of these requirements. Turn in is much, much, much easier. Downshifting is automatic. Braking is different. Wheelbase, everything. So the starting point for a newish driver compared to a pro time will be much closer. What used to be a 3s/lap gap is now halved.
The point is reinforced in the race cars, too. Take one look at the Carrera Cup Germany or Supercup qualifying timesheets from the 997 to the 991 and you will understand.
The best drivers will still be the best. But the car has just made them seem closer. And I love it, I absolutely want a 991 which I will use to set the odd superlap and as a DD most of the time.
[B]
7. It is faster than anything on real roads. I was driving at ridiculous speeds through the corners while drinking an iced coffee.
8. Any idiot can go fast in this car.
9. Am I an idiot.
It's kind of the point of having a Porsche with Chicktronic, aka PDK/S.
You can get the fastest 0 to 60 times while drinking your favorite drink. Like a Coke, Latte, Prune Juice et al!
I assume the Audi tt rs is fwd only rt? Last year a highly modified tt-rs won the 25 hrs of thill won it overall which for most part have been dominated by Porsche cupcars for years. At least reading from articles- aero and suspension geometry was the key. Mike
AWD but definently front biased. Gonna keep it street friendly just add camber and a little stiffer springs. Even going to NOT tune it for that extra 100hp as I want to keep the warranty.
The 991 is amazing. Fast and easier than the 997. The 997 in particular had such a high mastery curve that the laptime difference between experts and intermediates or newbies was massive (several seconds a lap. Getting within 3s of an expert in a 997 is considered an achievement). Why did it have this curve? The car worked in a very narrow window; and finding the sweet spot where the car turned properly with sufficient speed was very difficult, and then understanding how to be WOT at the apex (or nearabouts) took time. Finally, there was downshifting, which, takes bandwidth, agility and practice.
The 991 eliminates a LOT of these requirements. Turn in is much, much, much easier. Downshifting is automatic. Braking is different. Wheelbase, everything. So the starting point for a newish driver compared to a pro time will be much closer. What used to be a 3s/lap gap is now halved.
The point is reinforced in the race cars, too. Take one look at the Carrera Cup Germany or Supercup qualifying timesheets from the 997 to the 991 and you will understand.
The best drivers will still be the best. But the car has just made them seem closer. And I love it, I absolutely want a 991 which I will use to set the odd superlap and as a DD most of the time.
+100
(And try going from something like a 991 to a 997 - you learn very quickly that you suck. I went from an e90M3 with DSG...to this beast)
I am not sure what your question really is. I have had the pleasure/misfortune of instructing many students in GTRs, and a couple instructor candidates for that matter - not that this means anything about their driving skills....
Fact is that you can carry way more speed in a GTR without actually being able to understand driving dynamics and cadence. Modern engineering will solve all of the at the limit issues that usually results in offroad excursions. Most students in GTRs run out of room in Green or Blue (Our novice groups in Texas) long before they actually have what I would consider to be intermediate driving skills. WORSE YET, some students are promoted to higher run groups because the instructor judges their skill based on speed. I think this is what people refer to....it's being able to carry a lot of speed, without being responsible for it.
I presume everyone here will this when I say the 911 is not an easy car to drive at the limit. Having learned to drive fast/race in BMWs, going to the GT3 was a shocker. Granted the 997 was easier than the 996, which was easier than the 993....etc. I don't really think it's that important for the discussion, other than to say the 991 is another step function in engineering that allows one to carry far more speed than one is truly responsible for.
I think your post hits the nail on the head. A common trait of almost every newbie student who drives a modern car with advanced stability control is this: They can set much faster lap times than would be remotely possible without electronic intervention, and do so in spite of the bad technique we all had when first starting out. Of course they’d be faster still with better driving skills, but the point is that they’re able to drive at a much faster pace (a bigger % of the car’s potential) than would be possible without the intervention of the nanny systems. I have no idea if that trait is true of the 991 GT3, as I’ve never driven one or even rode shotgun in one. But it seems that may have been what the OP was getting at with the “any idiot” comment.
And as everybody knows, the downside of nanny systems for a newbie driver is that (a) Bad habits can take longer to break, and (b) Past a certain point, physics overwhelms even the best nanny system, and nanny systems guarantee that point will happen at a much higher speed than would otherwise have been the case, where a newbie is much more likely to be in over his head. So modern nannies can definitely be a double edged sword for a newbie track participant.
And as everybody knows, the downside of nanny systems for a newbie driver is that (a) Bad habits can take longer to break, and (b) Past a certain point, physics overwhelms even the best nanny system, and nanny systems guarantee that point will happen at a much higher speed than would otherwise have been the case, where a newbie is much more likely to be in over his head. So modern nannies can definitely be a double edged sword for a newbie track participant.
so true.
and ultimately if nanny systems are over relied on, car is much more dangerous
I think your post hits the nail on the head. A common trait of almost every newbie student who drives a modern car with advanced stability control is this: They can set much faster lap times than would be remotely possible without electronic intervention, and do so in spite of the bad technique we all had when first starting out. Of course they’d be faster still with better driving skills, but the point is that they’re able to drive at a much faster pace (a bigger % of the car’s potential) than would be possible without the intervention of the nanny systems. I have no idea if that trait is true of the 991 GT3, as I’ve never driven one or even rode shotgun in one. But it seems that may have been what the OP was getting at with the “any idiot” comment.
And as everybody knows, the downside of nanny systems for a newbie driver is that (a) Bad habits can take longer to break, and (b) Past a certain point, physics overwhelms even the best nanny system, and nanny systems guarantee that point will happen at a much higher speed than would otherwise have been the case, where a newbie is much more likely to be in over his head. So modern nannies can definitely be a double edged sword for a newbie track participant.
Agreed. But in reference to this thread, I'd suggest we passed the tipping point 3-4 generations of 911's/GT3's back, i.e, around the 993 to 996 transition.
2014 Evo Car of the year - Ferrari 458 Speciale. I thought the GT3 pretty much owned this category in the past. Not so for the 991 GT3? I don't even see it in the top 10. I haven't seen the full article but from what little I read, I did not see it.
11-07-2014, 02:19 AM
this when I say the 911 is not an easy car to drive at the limit. Having learned to drive fast/race in BMWs, going to the GT3 was a shocker. Granted the 997 was easier than the 996, which was easier than the 993....etc. I don't really think it's that important for the discussion, other than to say the 991 is another step function in engineering that allows one to carry far more speed than one is truly responsible for.
