Question about 997.2 GT3
10-28-2014, 04:27 PM
#31
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My 997.1 GT3 is a semi-DD. The stiff clutch becomes a non-issue after two or three days of getting used to it. You never think about it again. The low front end clearance can be an issue if you have to deal with steep driveway or garage ramps. Mine doesn't come with the lift, so I learn what to avoid. The ride is quite stiff and can be quite jarring over rough roads (I understand the 997.2 is better here). Outside of the magnificent engine/exhaust sound, the car is quite noisy, which may become tiresome on long trips. If you only have to deal with occasional light snowfall, you will be fine with winter tires. I've driven mine once in snow with winter tires to see how it coped and it was as good, if not better, than any other car I've driven in snow. Despite all the caveats, however, no other 911 variant, except maybe the GT2, has the soul of the GT3.
10-28-2014, 05:19 PM
#32
End of day, as fun the banter may be, all the input here is just going to lead to more questions. Somehow, you'll just have to find a way to drive it yourself if you're really concerned that the premise of the GT3 (street car that can legitimately be tracked) may run counter to what you're wanting out of a sports car.
There are people that DD it. There are people that choose to not DD it, but could (me). There are people who would never DD it.
Maybe someone here can offer you seat time in theirs. I bought my .1GT3 sight unseen, having never driven one. It exceeded my expectations and remains the best car I've ever owned that I could live with for a lifetime.
There are people that DD it. There are people that choose to not DD it, but could (me). There are people who would never DD it.
Maybe someone here can offer you seat time in theirs. I bought my .1GT3 sight unseen, having never driven one. It exceeded my expectations and remains the best car I've ever owned that I could live with for a lifetime.
10-28-2014, 05:34 PM
#33
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Thread Starter
End of day, as fun the banter may be, all the input here is just going to lead to more questions. Somehow, you'll just have to find a way to drive it yourself if you're really concerned that the premise of the GT3 (street car that can legitimately be tracked) may run counter to what you're wanting out of a sports car.
There are people that DD it. There are people that choose to not DD it, but could (me). There are people who would never DD it.
Maybe someone here can offer you seat time in theirs. I bought my .1GT3 sight unseen, having never driven one. It exceeded my expectations and remains the best car I've ever owned that I could live with for a lifetime.
There are people that DD it. There are people that choose to not DD it, but could (me). There are people who would never DD it.
Maybe someone here can offer you seat time in theirs. I bought my .1GT3 sight unseen, having never driven one. It exceeded my expectations and remains the best car I've ever owned that I could live with for a lifetime.
10-28-2014, 05:50 PM
#34
I would argue against a Porsche 911 of any kind as a commuter vehicle in the above mentioned setting. Sure it will do fine, even with the stiff clutch of a GT3 (and it's quite stiff!) but these cars' engines like to be revved and taken through their paces. They don't like crawling. I don't see how spending 30 minutes inside one of them to cover 10 miles is any fun. I know I wouldn't enjoy it. Best of luck on your decision!
10-28-2014, 06:22 PM
#35
I daily drive my GT3 about 10k miles per year. The only annoyance is the front end scrapes everywhere but a replacement lip is only $230 bucks. I have 42000 miles on my car + 15-20 track days and still on original clutch. The only non service issue I've had is my catalytic converter went bad around 35k miles (replaced by Porsche under warranty).
The stiffness of the clutch is a non issue to me.
edit: I reread your original post and if you think the ZR1 is a bad daily, the GT3 will be worse. To me, a ZR1 might as well be a Lexus with the magnetic suspension and soft clutch.
The stiffness of the clutch is a non issue to me.
edit: I reread your original post and if you think the ZR1 is a bad daily, the GT3 will be worse. To me, a ZR1 might as well be a Lexus with the magnetic suspension and soft clutch.
10-28-2014, 06:28 PM
#36
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[QUOTE=jem7v;11756037]Hmmmm this comment is very useful. Since I use the shelby has my comparison tool since the zr1 had the magnetic ride and independent rear. So the RS is bumpier than a live axle shelby? That's hard to imagine. I'd imagine the porsche would be way more comfortable than the shelby. The shelby was at my absolute limit for what I would put up with day to day for a car that gives me driving enjoyment.
Absolutely. The Shelby is actually a comfortable car. Those Recaros are fabulous. Although the live axle is tricky when hitting bumps because it bucks like a pickup truck upsetting traction and balance, the GT3 is just plain stiff. You definitely won't have to worry about the tail jumping on mid corner bumps but you still have to worry about a harsh ride. It's not GTR stiff but it is stiffer than the GT500 by a good amount. I drove my GT500 from OH to NY and I loved it. It's definitely a car I would consider on a road trip and commuting. It's just too damn loud on start up for my neighbors lol. Stop and go traffic in NYC (where I live) is not where the GT3 wants to be. And as others said, it's low.
It looks the car you're interested in has adaptive sport seats which is good. You also have a very short commute so it's doable. It will be night and day for you. A large, tall geared car with narrow tires vs a tiny short geared car with fat tires. Both are equally fun but in different ways.
Also the '13 GT500 residuals are actually pretty good. If you had an M5, I could understand. They lost $20k a year for the first 2 years. Ouch
Absolutely. The Shelby is actually a comfortable car. Those Recaros are fabulous. Although the live axle is tricky when hitting bumps because it bucks like a pickup truck upsetting traction and balance, the GT3 is just plain stiff. You definitely won't have to worry about the tail jumping on mid corner bumps but you still have to worry about a harsh ride. It's not GTR stiff but it is stiffer than the GT500 by a good amount. I drove my GT500 from OH to NY and I loved it. It's definitely a car I would consider on a road trip and commuting. It's just too damn loud on start up for my neighbors lol. Stop and go traffic in NYC (where I live) is not where the GT3 wants to be. And as others said, it's low.
It looks the car you're interested in has adaptive sport seats which is good. You also have a very short commute so it's doable. It will be night and day for you. A large, tall geared car with narrow tires vs a tiny short geared car with fat tires
. Both are equally fun but in different ways. Also the '13 GT500 residuals are actually pretty good. If you had an M5, I could understand. They lost $20k a year for the first 2 years. Ouch
10-28-2014, 08:00 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
You say.."I'm in the DC/MD/VA area."
I bought my GT3 in Alexandria, that traffic and stop-n-go type driving would be a real drag with my GT3.
I would not be using it as a DD in that type of commuting. My 991 is far more comfortable. good luck.
I bought my GT3 in Alexandria, that traffic and stop-n-go type driving would be a real drag with my GT3.
I would not be using it as a DD in that type of commuting. My 991 is far more comfortable. good luck.
10-28-2014, 08:34 PM
#38
Racer
I live in DC and I regularly drive my 6.2 GT3, a 7.1 GT3 and 7.2 C2S. The C2S is the easiest of the 3 by far. The other 2 are obviously track focused and quite a bit stiffer, but the 7.1 GT3 isn't too bad compared to JRZ shod 6.2 GT3. I still wouldn't want to commute in the 7.1 GT3 every day. Like most posters are saying, it is such a personal decision on what is too stiff or uncomfortable. While Porsche does make Daily Drivable sports cars, the GT3s have a more focused mission and comfort takes a back seat to handling. I'd argue they are the least DD-able of the 911 range. As a track driver I'd also argue that simply driving back roads won't really allow one to appreciate what the car truly offers, IMO. Heck, we have to go pretty far out to find any decent "back" roads in this area. It would be easier to get some time at our local track summit point. Again, personally, it's only at the track that I can quantifiably experience the benefits of the GT3s over the C2S. If you want a "raw" experience, you can drive the C2S/Turbo/etc.. with a loud exhaust and PASM on stiff and get nearly the same experience when street driving with the option of dialing it back when you don't want to be so "raw".
I can't comment on the 7.2 GT3 but the 7.1 is definitely stiffer/less compliant than the C2S on it's most firm PASM setting.
You're on the right path of trying to get a ride/drive in one as the parameters you will use to make your decision are so subjective. Hopefully you'll have an opportunity to drive/ride in one on some less that perfect roads that we have locally. Most modern cars feel great on smoothish roads.
Good luck!
-KJ
Again, personally, it's only at the track that I can quantifiably experience the benefits of the GT3s over the C2S. If you want a "raw" experience, you can drive the C2S/Turbo/etc.. with a loud exhaust and PASM on stiff and get nearly the same experience when street driving with the option of dialing it back when you don't want to be so "raw".I can't comment on the 7.2 GT3 but the 7.1 is definitely stiffer/less compliant than the C2S on it's most firm PASM setting.
You're on the right path of trying to get a ride/drive in one as the parameters you will use to make your decision are so subjective. Hopefully you'll have an opportunity to drive/ride in one on some less that perfect roads that we have locally. Most modern cars feel great on smoothish roads.
Good luck!
-KJ
10-28-2014, 09:19 PM
#39
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Thread Starter
[QUOTE=s4awd;11759623]
I sold my GT500 a year after getting it. I only lost like 3k. It was right before the hype died down and prices went down. You think the GTR is stiffer than the shelby? I thought the 2010 and 2011 GTR I've driven were softer than the shelby lol. If the 997.2 GT3 is the same stiffness as a GTR in the soft mode then I think thats fine. Thought I couldn't tell much different between modes in the GTR. In the shelby and zr1 there was a very noticeable difference between soft and the firm setting.
Did I say the ZR1 was stiff? It wasn't. Only the shelby was. The zr1 just was a pain because backing up out of garages and not hitting cars was a chore, same as parallel parking. Also it got tons of attention which got old. I was practically paranoid going into restaurants and movie theaters since by the time I come out there is a swarm around my car.
The shelby clutch really didn't overwhelm me unless I was in horrible horrible horrible 495 traffic. I almost killed myself. But that was one time in a year. I was planning on finding a GT3 with the front axle lift. But granted replacing a 230 splitter every year or every other year isn't a big deal.
I drive to bethesda for work. Luckily I'm no where near 495 because that traffic is horrible.
Hmmmm this comment is very useful. Since I use the shelby has my comparison tool since the zr1 had the magnetic ride and independent rear. So the RS is bumpier than a live axle shelby? That's hard to imagine. I'd imagine the porsche would be way more comfortable than the shelby. The shelby was at my absolute limit for what I would put up with day to day for a car that gives me driving enjoyment.
Absolutely. The Shelby is actually a comfortable car. Those Recaros are fabulous. Although the live axle is tricky when hitting bumps because it bucks like a pickup truck upsetting traction and balance, the GT3 is just plain stiff. You definitely won't have to worry about the tail jumping on mid corner bumps but you still have to worry about a harsh ride. It's not GTR stiff but it is stiffer than the GT500 by a good amount. I drove my GT500 from OH to NY and I loved it. It's definitely a car I would consider on a road trip and commuting. It's just too damn loud on start up for my neighbors lol. Stop and go traffic in NYC (where I live) is not where the GT3 wants to be. And as others said, it's low.
It looks the car you're interested in has adaptive sport seats which is good. You also have a very short commute so it's doable. It will be night and day for you. A large, tall geared car with narrow tires vs a tiny short geared car with fat tires. Both are equally fun but in different ways.
Also the '13 GT500 residuals are actually pretty good. If you had an M5, I could understand. They lost $20k a year for the first 2 years. Ouch
Absolutely. The Shelby is actually a comfortable car. Those Recaros are fabulous. Although the live axle is tricky when hitting bumps because it bucks like a pickup truck upsetting traction and balance, the GT3 is just plain stiff. You definitely won't have to worry about the tail jumping on mid corner bumps but you still have to worry about a harsh ride. It's not GTR stiff but it is stiffer than the GT500 by a good amount. I drove my GT500 from OH to NY and I loved it. It's definitely a car I would consider on a road trip and commuting. It's just too damn loud on start up for my neighbors lol. Stop and go traffic in NYC (where I live) is not where the GT3 wants to be. And as others said, it's low.
It looks the car you're interested in has adaptive sport seats which is good. You also have a very short commute so it's doable. It will be night and day for you. A large, tall geared car with narrow tires vs a tiny short geared car with fat tires
. Both are equally fun but in different ways. Also the '13 GT500 residuals are actually pretty good. If you had an M5, I could understand. They lost $20k a year for the first 2 years. Ouch
I daily drive my GT3 about 10k miles per year. The only annoyance is the front end scrapes everywhere but a replacement lip is only $230 bucks. I have 42000 miles on my car + 15-20 track days and still on original clutch. The only non service issue I've had is my catalytic converter went bad around 35k miles (replaced by Porsche under warranty).
The stiffness of the clutch is a non issue to me.
edit: I reread your original post and if you think the ZR1 is a bad daily, the GT3 will be worse. To me, a ZR1 might as well be a Lexus with the magnetic suspension and soft clutch.
The stiffness of the clutch is a non issue to me.
edit: I reread your original post and if you think the ZR1 is a bad daily, the GT3 will be worse. To me, a ZR1 might as well be a Lexus with the magnetic suspension and soft clutch.
The shelby clutch really didn't overwhelm me unless I was in horrible horrible horrible 495 traffic. I almost killed myself. But that was one time in a year. I was planning on finding a GT3 with the front axle lift. But granted replacing a 230 splitter every year or every other year isn't a big deal.
I drive to bethesda for work. Luckily I'm no where near 495 because that traffic is horrible.
10-28-2014, 11:12 PM
#40
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I know right?? lol. But the new zo6 is pretty bad ***. The problem is coming from this being my only car. If I was like most buyers and had 2, I wouldn't care really. Plus also finding one that wasn't raped on the track every other week is another issue.
Hmmm....Has anyone who has a .2 GT3 and a 991 or 981 with PASM driven both to compare the ride quality? Again if it's basically the same as a 991 in the firm setting, then it'll be fine. But if it's worse than say the shelby that another member pointed out (albeit that was an RS), than that's too rough for me to drive every day.
So if someone could answer this that would be great.
Hmmm....Has anyone who has a .2 GT3 and a 991 or 981 with PASM driven both to compare the ride quality? Again if it's basically the same as a 991 in the firm setting, then it'll be fine. But if it's worse than say the shelby that another member pointed out (albeit that was an RS), than that's too rough for me to drive every day.
So if someone could answer this that would be great.
I can say, 981 w/SS is as stiff as gt3 w/PASM off.
however, with PASM mode on, gt3 gets definitely stiffer.
10-29-2014, 02:59 AM
#41
I test drove a 2010 Corvette ZR1 (638 hp) today and it felt like a rocket.
Lighted up the tires in the first 3 gears.
The only cars I can compare it to in terms of acceleration are the GTR and a 2010 911 turbo....except without the turbo lag.
The ZR1 acceleration, handling, and brakes were impressive, but at the expense of build quality.
The interior was horrible, simply horrible for a $110,000+ car.
The seats are really bad as well. If you sit in them and reach back with both arms behind the seat and pull forward the seat will bend. And there is very little lateral support so you fly around when cornering. The drive-train is great.
I should mention I have a 2005 Boxster and the seats in it are the best I've experienced.
My question for all the GT3 owners is, I found a 2010 GT3 with around 22k miles, and it has the sport, bucket seat option.
Are the sport bucket seats comfortable?
I ask because in my Boxster I sit quite reclined, and it looks like the sport buckets cannot be relcined.
I've read that the carbon, sport buckets are a pretty pricy option and in high demand from track drivers, so I take it that if my back could not get used to them I would have little trouble selling them. Could probably pick up a set of standard seats from an automobile recycler.
Aside from the 20hp increase, what are the differences between the gen 997.1 and 997.2 besides the increased downforce, and is it worth the extra $$ for a 997.2?
cheers
Lighted up the tires in the first 3 gears.
The only cars I can compare it to in terms of acceleration are the GTR and a 2010 911 turbo....except without the turbo lag.
The ZR1 acceleration, handling, and brakes were impressive, but at the expense of build quality.
The interior was horrible, simply horrible for a $110,000+ car.
The seats are really bad as well. If you sit in them and reach back with both arms behind the seat and pull forward the seat will bend. And there is very little lateral support so you fly around when cornering. The drive-train is great.
I should mention I have a 2005 Boxster and the seats in it are the best I've experienced.
My question for all the GT3 owners is, I found a 2010 GT3 with around 22k miles, and it has the sport, bucket seat option.
Are the sport bucket seats comfortable?
I ask because in my Boxster I sit quite reclined, and it looks like the sport buckets cannot be relcined.
I've read that the carbon, sport buckets are a pretty pricy option and in high demand from track drivers, so I take it that if my back could not get used to them I would have little trouble selling them. Could probably pick up a set of standard seats from an automobile recycler.
Aside from the 20hp increase, what are the differences between the gen 997.1 and 997.2 besides the increased downforce, and is it worth the extra $$ for a 997.2?
cheers
10-29-2014, 08:42 AM
#42
I have a 7.2 GT3 and had a 981S Boxster with standard suspension and 19" wheels.
981 was very compliant with superb ride; it's a very accomplished car. However, it's too perfect/clinical in the way it travels.
GT3 is much stiffer, but is rarely harsh. GT3 does not do well on broken city streets full of potholes, badly repaired uneven surfaces and other bits of road where more suspension travel would be beneficial.
However, on decent roads, GT3 is fine, ride wise.
As many have said, you need to get a ride in GT3 to be sure that it works for you. I have taken a few friends out in the GT3 and no one has ever complained about the stiff/firm ride.
For me, the stiff/firm ride is an integral part of the whole go kart/race car GT3 experience.
981 was very compliant with superb ride; it's a very accomplished car. However, it's too perfect/clinical in the way it travels.
GT3 is much stiffer, but is rarely harsh. GT3 does not do well on broken city streets full of potholes, badly repaired uneven surfaces and other bits of road where more suspension travel would be beneficial.
However, on decent roads, GT3 is fine, ride wise.
As many have said, you need to get a ride in GT3 to be sure that it works for you. I have taken a few friends out in the GT3 and no one has ever complained about the stiff/firm ride.
For me, the stiff/firm ride is an integral part of the whole go kart/race car GT3 experience.
10-29-2014, 09:45 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have a 7.2 GT3 and had a 981S Boxster with standard suspension and 19" wheels.
981 was very compliant with superb ride; it's a very accomplished car. However, it's too perfect/clinical in the way it travels.
GT3 is much stiffer, but is rarely harsh. GT3 does not do well on broken city streets full of potholes, badly repaired uneven surfaces and other bits of road where more suspension travel would be beneficial.
However, on decent roads, GT3 is fine, ride wise.
As many have said, you need to get a ride in GT3 to be sure that it works for you. I have taken a few friends out in the GT3 and no one has ever complained about the stiff/firm ride.
For me, the stiff/firm ride is an integral part of the whole go kart/race car GT3 experience.
981 was very compliant with superb ride; it's a very accomplished car. However, it's too perfect/clinical in the way it travels.
GT3 is much stiffer, but is rarely harsh. GT3 does not do well on broken city streets full of potholes, badly repaired uneven surfaces and other bits of road where more suspension travel would be beneficial.
However, on decent roads, GT3 is fine, ride wise.
As many have said, you need to get a ride in GT3 to be sure that it works for you. I have taken a few friends out in the GT3 and no one has ever complained about the stiff/firm ride.
For me, the stiff/firm ride is an integral part of the whole go kart/race car GT3 experience.
So maybe someone on here who is located in my area will chime in and be super nice and give me a ride in their car so I can see for myself.
10-29-2014, 12:12 PM
#44
How does the GT3 suspension work exactly? In a 991 or 981 PASM is always working. There is just a soft and a firm setting. For the .2 GT3 is PASM different on that car? Where you have the off mode where the shocks don't continually adjust and just stay in a fixed soft setting, and then a firm mode where they are constantly adjusting and firm?
Not sure I agree with this part haha. I really like a comfortable car so that I want to drive it more. If if beats me up too much then I don't like it.
So maybe someone on here who is located in my area will chime in and be super nice and give me a ride in their car so I can see for myself.
Not sure I agree with this part haha. I really like a comfortable car so that I want to drive it more. If if beats me up too much then I don't like it.
So maybe someone on here who is located in my area will chime in and be super nice and give me a ride in their car so I can see for myself.
For the most comfortable car, best car for you is a Cayman S on 19" wheels and PASM
10-29-2014, 12:36 PM
#45
Hmmm....Has anyone who has a .2 GT3 and a 991 or 981 with PASM driven both to compare the ride quality? Again if it's basically the same as a 991 in the firm setting, then it'll be fine. But if it's worse than say the shelby that another member pointed out (albeit that was an RS), than that's too rough for me to drive every day.
So if someone could answer this that would be great.
So if someone could answer this that would be great.
Reading through this thread I can safely say a GT3 is not the car for you. Another option for a compliant DD is the Audi R8. If you can handle the attention! Also, don't over look the Cayman or Boxster - they are among the most fun cars you can own.