Changed oil found a chewed up green oring in the oil filter..
04-26-2014, 04:11 PM
#1
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UPDATED PHOTOS 4/29/14 !Changed oil found a chewed up green oring in the oil filter.
I just performed my 1st oil change since purchasing the car. I take the oil filter a loose first and to my amaze meant i find a green oring that has been chewed and the oil filter collected the oring.....I have no clue where this oring could have come from....everything is running fine, oil pressure is good and no check engine light. here are a few pics...can one tell me where this oring could have come.
NEW
I TOOK SOME NEW PHOTS TODAY..... IT IS PRETTY MUCH GOING TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO RECONSTRUCT THIS GASKET....IT HAS BEEN SLICED AND CUT INTO SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.....I FOUND SOME SQUARE PIECES IN AMONG THE PEICES..SO MAYBE THIS WILL HELP TO DETERMINE WHAT IT IS . FROM WHAT I CAN TELL IT IS NOT A INTAKE MANOLD GASKET OR THE GREEN GASKETS ON THE OIL PUMP...DO TO IT HAS SQUARE EDGES EITHER ONE OF THOSE GASKETS DO NOT.
IM WONDERING IF IT CAME FROM THE TIMING AREA LIKE A COVER GASKET OR MAYBE DOES IT EVEN GO TO THIS CAR AND SOMEBODY WAS PLAYING A JOKE WITH SOMEBODY THEY WORK WITH WHEN THEY WERE WORKING ON THE CAR.
NEW
I TOOK SOME NEW PHOTS TODAY..... IT IS PRETTY MUCH GOING TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO RECONSTRUCT THIS GASKET....IT HAS BEEN SLICED AND CUT INTO SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.....I FOUND SOME SQUARE PIECES IN AMONG THE PEICES..SO MAYBE THIS WILL HELP TO DETERMINE WHAT IT IS . FROM WHAT I CAN TELL IT IS NOT A INTAKE MANOLD GASKET OR THE GREEN GASKETS ON THE OIL PUMP...DO TO IT HAS SQUARE EDGES EITHER ONE OF THOSE GASKETS DO NOT.
IM WONDERING IF IT CAME FROM THE TIMING AREA LIKE A COVER GASKET OR MAYBE DOES IT EVEN GO TO THIS CAR AND SOMEBODY WAS PLAYING A JOKE WITH SOMEBODY THEY WORK WITH WHEN THEY WERE WORKING ON THE CAR.
Last edited by MikejGT3; 04-29-2014 at 08:23 PM. Reason: UPDATED PICS
04-26-2014, 04:27 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Good thing it was plastic!
Can't tell by size if it could have fallen through when someone added oil, but then wouldn't it have been stuck in the oil tank? Could it have fallen in the oil filter section when the previous oil change was done, and sat there, subsequently getting brittle and cracking to pieces?
Or could it have fallen in at the factory during assembly?
Can't tell by size if it could have fallen through when someone added oil, but then wouldn't it have been stuck in the oil tank? Could it have fallen in the oil filter section when the previous oil change was done, and sat there, subsequently getting brittle and cracking to pieces?
Or could it have fallen in at the factory during assembly?
04-26-2014, 04:42 PM
#3
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I have no clue...it looks like it possibly went through the oil pump and got chewed to pieces and then the filter collected it all after passing through the oil pump....its a waxy feeling rubber Oring... Its not the oring from the oil filter cup that seals the outside of the cup and the oring that goes on the nipple of the oil filter cup to keep oil from draining back down...... both of those Orings were there.
Could it be from the Varaible valve timing system..if someone had to remove them?
I have never been in to one of these engines before so i don't know where a green oring or gasket is used.
Could it be from the Varaible valve timing system..if someone had to remove them?
I have never been in to one of these engines before so i don't know where a green oring or gasket is used.
04-26-2014, 04:52 PM
#4
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It doesn't seem like it got chewed up, I don't see gear marks. It looks like it cracked to pieces. So it's soft, not brittle?
Someone on the list will know if it's an internal part or if someone dropped it in there.
How many miles on the car?
Someone on the list will know if it's an internal part or if someone dropped it in there.
How many miles on the car?
04-26-2014, 05:05 PM
#5
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29,400 miles on the car...previous owner said Fletcher Jones Porsche had the engine out before to do rear main seal replacement and also Sharwerks had the engine out before to do coolant hose penning. Thats the only work that has been done to the engine except normal oil changes he did himself. Also had Spark plugs changed.
list of mods on the car
RS LWFW, RS clutch, RS LWCP, SW's ecu tune, Gaurds LSD.....no other mods or engine internal build or refresh.
list of mods on the car
RS LWFW, RS clutch, RS LWCP, SW's ecu tune, Gaurds LSD.....no other mods or engine internal build or refresh.
04-26-2014, 05:10 PM
#6
Race Director
In the 996 models that color of o-ring can be from a cam chain tensioner. However, the diameter looks a bit larger than I recall seeing in the few very, very few cases, of this o-ring coming apart.
IF this is the engine's first oil/filter change there can be anything and everything in the oil filter housing oil and filter element.
However, this doesn't look like the 1st oil change though because I would expect to see more metal (alum.) bits, particies in oil filter element.
Hard to believe if it was a cam chain tensioner o-ring, or any or-ring anywhere else in the engine, the engine is not exhibiting something. It is not like an o-ring is just added to the engine for fun. They usually serve a critical function/purpose.
Probably not trash in the sump for I would fail to see how an intact o-ring could be ingested by the oil pump, how it would make it past/through the oil intake pick up screen.
If you are really concerned you might have to take the car to place where the Porsche diagnostics computer can be used to check cam timing looking for any significant variation in cam timing which could arise from a tensioner that was not properly tensioning its chain.
An intermin course of action could involve removing the filter housing again and checking the oil in it and the filter element. Be sure you use a *clean* drain pan, clean enough to eat out of. The only thing you want in the pan is the engine's oil filter housing oil and any debris that it might contain.
What you see in the oil/filter element determines what you do next.
IF this is the engine's first oil/filter change there can be anything and everything in the oil filter housing oil and filter element.
However, this doesn't look like the 1st oil change though because I would expect to see more metal (alum.) bits, particies in oil filter element.
Hard to believe if it was a cam chain tensioner o-ring, or any or-ring anywhere else in the engine, the engine is not exhibiting something. It is not like an o-ring is just added to the engine for fun. They usually serve a critical function/purpose.
Probably not trash in the sump for I would fail to see how an intact o-ring could be ingested by the oil pump, how it would make it past/through the oil intake pick up screen.
If you are really concerned you might have to take the car to place where the Porsche diagnostics computer can be used to check cam timing looking for any significant variation in cam timing which could arise from a tensioner that was not properly tensioning its chain.
An intermin course of action could involve removing the filter housing again and checking the oil in it and the filter element. Be sure you use a *clean* drain pan, clean enough to eat out of. The only thing you want in the pan is the engine's oil filter housing oil and any debris that it might contain.
What you see in the oil/filter element determines what you do next.
04-26-2014, 05:22 PM
#7
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If it was something with the cam timing...i would think it would through a CEL for cam position or a cam timing code? I know all the Euro cars i work on if the DME sees a abnormal cam timing reading or if it can not adjust the cam timing properly it will through a CEL for it. I have the Porsche OEM scan tool...i will take a look at the data on the cam timing and see if see anything abnormal between either bank.
Im just wondering if the previous owner ever used a aftermarket oil filter and if the aftermarket oil filter came with a green Oring to seal the oil filter cup instead of black Orings like the Porsche filter comes with and maybe by chance the Oring rolled of while unscrewing the oil filter cup and stayed in the threads of the oil filter housing and has been sitting there for a long time never to be noticed and now finally came apart when i unscrewed the oil filter cup this time. Im waiting to hear back from the original owner to see what he used every time he changed his oil.
Im just wondering if the previous owner ever used a aftermarket oil filter and if the aftermarket oil filter came with a green Oring to seal the oil filter cup instead of black Orings like the Porsche filter comes with and maybe by chance the Oring rolled of while unscrewing the oil filter cup and stayed in the threads of the oil filter housing and has been sitting there for a long time never to be noticed and now finally came apart when i unscrewed the oil filter cup this time. Im waiting to hear back from the original owner to see what he used every time he changed his oil.
In the 996 models that color of o-ring can be from a cam chain tensioner. However, the diameter looks a bit larger than I recall seeing in the few very, very few cases, of this o-ring coming apart.
IF this is the engine's first oil/filter change there can be anything and everything in the oil filter housing oil and filter element.
However, this doesn't look like the 1st oil change though because I would expect to see more metal (alum.) bits, particies in oil filter element.
Hard to believe if it was a cam chain tensioner o-ring, or any or-ring anywhere else in the engine, the engine is not exhibiting something. It is not like an o-ring is just added to the engine for fun. They usually serve a critical function/purpose.
Probably not trash in the sump for I would fail to see how an intact o-ring could be ingested by the oil pump, how it would make it past/through the oil intake pick up screen.
If you are really concerned you might have to take the car to place where the Porsche diagnostics computer can be used to check cam timing looking for any significant variation in cam timing which could arise from a tensioner that was not properly tensioning its chain.
An intermin course of action could involve removing the filter housing again and checking the oil in it and the filter element. Be sure you use a *clean* drain pan, clean enough to eat out of. The only thing you want in the pan is the engine's oil filter housing oil and any debris that it might contain.
What you see in the oil/filter element determines what you do next.
IF this is the engine's first oil/filter change there can be anything and everything in the oil filter housing oil and filter element.
However, this doesn't look like the 1st oil change though because I would expect to see more metal (alum.) bits, particies in oil filter element.
Hard to believe if it was a cam chain tensioner o-ring, or any or-ring anywhere else in the engine, the engine is not exhibiting something. It is not like an o-ring is just added to the engine for fun. They usually serve a critical function/purpose.
Probably not trash in the sump for I would fail to see how an intact o-ring could be ingested by the oil pump, how it would make it past/through the oil intake pick up screen.
If you are really concerned you might have to take the car to place where the Porsche diagnostics computer can be used to check cam timing looking for any significant variation in cam timing which could arise from a tensioner that was not properly tensioning its chain.
An intermin course of action could involve removing the filter housing again and checking the oil in it and the filter element. Be sure you use a *clean* drain pan, clean enough to eat out of. The only thing you want in the pan is the engine's oil filter housing oil and any debris that it might contain.
What you see in the oil/filter element determines what you do next.
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04-26-2014, 08:10 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
One of many possibilities but that size and distinctive green color immediately reminds me of this. Where's your oil pressure now, does it ever reach 5?
Just thinking of the oil circuit in our cars, this part must have broken free BETWEEN the scavenge filter and the paper filter that you took out. This is specificically from the pump and beyond and it's not a long path.
Cam adjusters don't have plastic bits. Nor does the rest of the top & mid-blocks. And if things were to break there they'll be caught in the scavenge pickup and the residuals come out when you drain oil from the bottom, not from the filter up top. Do you have all the pieces to reassemble a complete O-ring? That'll tell you much of the story.
I honestly don't know better but anything with the oil pump would give me a ton of concern...
Just thinking of the oil circuit in our cars, this part must have broken free BETWEEN the scavenge filter and the paper filter that you took out. This is specificically from the pump and beyond and it's not a long path.
Cam adjusters don't have plastic bits. Nor does the rest of the top & mid-blocks. And if things were to break there they'll be caught in the scavenge pickup and the residuals come out when you drain oil from the bottom, not from the filter up top. Do you have all the pieces to reassemble a complete O-ring? That'll tell you much of the story.
I honestly don't know better but anything with the oil pump would give me a ton of concern...
04-26-2014, 08:23 PM
#9
Race Director
If it was something with the cam timing...i would think it would through a CEL for cam position or a cam timing code? I know all the Euro cars i work on if the DME sees a abnormal cam timing reading or if it can not adjust the cam timing properly it will through a CEL for it. I have the Porsche OEM scan tool...i will take a look at the data on the cam timing and see if see anything abnormal between either bank.
Im just wondering if the previous owner ever used a aftermarket oil filter and if the aftermarket oil filter came with a green Oring to seal the oil filter cup instead of black Orings like the Porsche filter comes with and maybe by chance the Oring rolled of while unscrewing the oil filter cup and stayed in the threads of the oil filter housing and has been sitting there for a long time never to be noticed and now finally came apart when i unscrewed the oil filter cup this time. Im waiting to hear back from the original owner to see what he used every time he changed his oil.
Im just wondering if the previous owner ever used a aftermarket oil filter and if the aftermarket oil filter came with a green Oring to seal the oil filter cup instead of black Orings like the Porsche filter comes with and maybe by chance the Oring rolled of while unscrewing the oil filter cup and stayed in the threads of the oil filter housing and has been sitting there for a long time never to be noticed and now finally came apart when i unscrewed the oil filter cup this time. Im waiting to hear back from the original owner to see what he used every time he changed his oil.
If you have the Porsche scan tool then I'd recommend you check just to be sure.
OTOH, the pic posted by CRex is very interesting. My WAG is that is what the material is -- one of the seals/o-rings that seals the oil pump ports -- and it is not anything to do with the cam tensioners.
You report good oil pressure and notice nothing different about the engine's oil pressure readings?
Probably nothing even though finding the debris/trash as you did is a bit scary.
But even though the debris/trash means nothing where/how it got where it got is hard to know, without having an engine at hand to study and possibly figure out a route that what is probably just an extra (dropped?) seal/o-ring took to get where you found the debris/trash. I mean even if the part was dropped into the engine at some point I do not see it making it in whole or parts through the screen of the oil intake.
04-26-2014, 09:03 PM
#10
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on cold start up the oil pressure is 5 once the car warms up it runs at 2.5 at idle on the gauge. I will check tonight what the pressures ones while going down the road
there are no codes for sure...when i recent the service reminder light i went through all the modules in the car and checked for codes...none were found.
i have all the pieces i took out....i will have to sit down and see if i can reassemble them!
there are no codes for sure...when i recent the service reminder light i went through all the modules in the car and checked for codes...none were found.
i have all the pieces i took out....i will have to sit down and see if i can reassemble them!
04-26-2014, 09:19 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Just trying to visually reassemble those pieces, it seems there is more than one complete circle, and some piece shapes seem to be more complex than o-ring pieces.
So the green pieces in CRex's picture sure look suspiciously similar.
So the green pieces in CRex's picture sure look suspiciously similar.
04-26-2014, 09:37 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
04-26-2014, 09:53 PM
#13
It looks like intake manifold gasket to me... correct colour, locating tab/spur and the oval + injector seal would give that amount of plastic.
Dropped object would be my guess.
You have two choices. strip and check or take a slight gamble and just drive...
Dropped object would be my guess.
You have two choices. strip and check or take a slight gamble and just drive...
04-26-2014, 11:19 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
There's a green o ring used in engines of various years:
http://www.aasesales.com/products/h4e-i61-02c-101096
Maybe the shop dropped one in there a while back?
Or a problem during assembly
http://www.aasesales.com/products/h4e-i61-02c-101096
Maybe the shop dropped one in there a while back?
Or a problem during assembly
04-26-2014, 11:27 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
For the technical geeks.
Your scavenge pump is filtered. You have debris in your paper filter. For debris to get trapped up top it's gotta be IN the pathway between those two points. What there? Just your scavenge pump and the auxiliary cooling circuit. Had you dropped an o-ring into the oil filler neck it could've sloshed around the main tank but would it have broken into that many pieces by itself...
Your scavenge pump is filtered. You have debris in your paper filter. For debris to get trapped up top it's gotta be IN the pathway between those two points. What there? Just your scavenge pump and the auxiliary cooling circuit. Had you dropped an o-ring into the oil filler neck it could've sloshed around the main tank but would it have broken into that many pieces by itself...