When purchasing a car, how do you factor in track miles into the wear of the GT3 RS?
04-21-2014, 01:43 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
When purchasing a car, how do you factor in track miles into the wear of the GT3 RS?
Hey guys,
In my quest to purchase a GT3 RS, I've been doing my homework as the cars I've been looking at have come and gone.
So of the cars I've checked out, more than half have had serious track miles on them. I'm not talking about the occasional drive over to the track for fun, but with ignitions ranging over 10,000 in stage 1, some stage 4 ignitions, to finding out the car was transported in a trailer from track to track after doing a google search.
Now, Porsche states 85% of these cars have been on a race track, but I'm wondering as a second hand buyer, how do you factor in the miles spent on a racetrack?
Audi had made a statement in regards to this last year when it was testing it's R8 on the Nurburgring. One of the executives said that the race track wore down the car at approximately 15-18x normal street driving. It other words, 1000 miles on that particular race track had consistent damage/wear on the vehicle like it was driven 15,000-18,000 miles on street. Factoring in the ignitions, looking at total operating hours compared to mileage, and how often the tire changes were done (if they show up on the Carfax report), as well as looking at the number of track mods done, I can usually estimate give or take what type of track time the car has done.
As someone looking to purchase second hand, and seeing that half these cars were driven frequently on the race track, it's a bit concerning.
If these cars are driven on the track how often do we see problems develop? Do you guys tend to walk away from cars used heavily on the track? CPO warranty is not included in the sale of these cars since they have mods done to them. What is the upper limit in terms of track mileage? Resale value?
Basically, how does this affect your decision to purchase a GT3 RS? What concerns would you have?
Thanks!
In my quest to purchase a GT3 RS, I've been doing my homework as the cars I've been looking at have come and gone.
So of the cars I've checked out, more than half have had serious track miles on them. I'm not talking about the occasional drive over to the track for fun, but with ignitions ranging over 10,000 in stage 1, some stage 4 ignitions, to finding out the car was transported in a trailer from track to track after doing a google search.
Now, Porsche states 85% of these cars have been on a race track, but I'm wondering as a second hand buyer, how do you factor in the miles spent on a racetrack?
Audi had made a statement in regards to this last year when it was testing it's R8 on the Nurburgring. One of the executives said that the race track wore down the car at approximately 15-18x normal street driving. It other words, 1000 miles on that particular race track had consistent damage/wear on the vehicle like it was driven 15,000-18,000 miles on street. Factoring in the ignitions, looking at total operating hours compared to mileage, and how often the tire changes were done (if they show up on the Carfax report), as well as looking at the number of track mods done, I can usually estimate give or take what type of track time the car has done.
As someone looking to purchase second hand, and seeing that half these cars were driven frequently on the race track, it's a bit concerning.
If these cars are driven on the track how often do we see problems develop? Do you guys tend to walk away from cars used heavily on the track? CPO warranty is not included in the sale of these cars since they have mods done to them. What is the upper limit in terms of track mileage? Resale value?
Basically, how does this affect your decision to purchase a GT3 RS? What concerns would you have?
Thanks!
04-21-2014, 02:00 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
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I think that the 15-18X wear is a high number to use, the testing is by professional drivers, driving at 10/10ths and most GT3 drivers are far from that mark. When I bought my GT3 it was heavily modified and had a lot of track time, how ever over revs were very low and PPI checked out. These are very durable cars, and it should stand the test of time. I think that a garage queen can cause as many or more issues then one that is regularly used for street and track.
04-21-2014, 02:07 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Trying to quantify the increased wear from track use is VERY difficult, if not impossible, because of this. Over revs, proper maintenance, and knowing who the prior owners are is probably the best you can do.
04-21-2014, 02:16 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Don't assume tracked cars can't be CPO'd. They can be. If you are concerned, go make friends with your local service manager and be honest with him. Most will tell you pretty quickly whether they are track friendly or not.
Mine has a roll bar and harnesses and has been repaired without issue.
Mine has a roll bar and harnesses and has been repaired without issue.
04-21-2014, 02:23 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think that the 15-18X wear is a high number to use, the testing is by professional drivers, driving at 10/10ths and most GT3 drivers are far from that mark. When I bought my GT3 it was heavily modified and had a lot of track time, how ever over revs were very low and PPI checked out. These are very durable cars, and it should stand the test of time. I think that a garage queen can cause as many or more issues then one that is regularly used for street and track.
04-21-2014, 02:26 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
May I ask, you have a number on the side of your car. The car I'm looking at used to have a number on the front hood of the car. What can I assume from that? Was it used in competition against other cars for a season? Do any lapping events require numbers on cars? I'm assuming it was used to race.
04-21-2014, 02:28 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Don't assume tracked cars can't be CPO'd. They can be. If you are concerned, go make friends with your local service manager and be honest with him. Most will tell you pretty quickly whether they are track friendly or not.
Mine has a roll bar and harnesses and has been repaired without issue.
Mine has a roll bar and harnesses and has been repaired without issue.
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04-21-2014, 02:35 PM
#8
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Track cars are fine. (if they were maintained as such)
Look at over rev history.
Service records are a must. If serviced at an indy, talk to them.
Track cars should have their oil changed more often. Look for that.
Track car wear items would include:
brake calliper dust boots (typically melt and crack from heat)
Paint (look for obvious track rash from debre etc)
Brake calliper mounting hardware. Excessive brake changes will time out the threads. Proper fix is install studs like the cup car.
Look for cut carpets and drilled/welded floor mounts left behind from roll bars.
All the above is why tracked car typically sell for less then street driven cars.
Again, nothing serious. But keep a keen eye when it comes to negotiating as these thing are a factor.
Look at over rev history.
Service records are a must. If serviced at an indy, talk to them.
Track cars should have their oil changed more often. Look for that.
Track car wear items would include:
brake calliper dust boots (typically melt and crack from heat)
Paint (look for obvious track rash from debre etc)
Brake calliper mounting hardware. Excessive brake changes will time out the threads. Proper fix is install studs like the cup car.
Look for cut carpets and drilled/welded floor mounts left behind from roll bars.
All the above is why tracked car typically sell for less then street driven cars.
Again, nothing serious. But keep a keen eye when it comes to negotiating as these thing are a factor.
04-21-2014, 05:00 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Dealers won't let me contact the previous owners until full payment is made, which is a bummer.
May I ask, you have a number on the side of your car. The car I'm looking at used to have a number on the front hood of the car. What can I assume from that? Was it used in competition against other cars for a season? Do any lapping events require numbers on cars? I'm assuming it was used to race.
May I ask, you have a number on the side of your car. The car I'm looking at used to have a number on the front hood of the car. What can I assume from that? Was it used in competition against other cars for a season? Do any lapping events require numbers on cars? I'm assuming it was used to race.
04-21-2014, 05:30 PM
#12
GT3 player par excellence
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i dont mean to be crass.
based on the info you asked, you are looknig at the wrong car.
for very pristnie cars, i accept zero chips and i am looking for basically NEW cars with zero blemish and i will pay way over mkt for it. for my drivers and track cars. like joe and pjs said, no level 3, not hit, then good enough. i dont run cmpression and leakdown either. if the leakdown is really bad, it will trigger ECU. if it's just single digit, i couldn't care less.
the qeustion is why do you want this particular car?
there are plenty of cars with better DME.
once you figures the "why this car" answer, it will become clear.
based on the info you asked, you are looknig at the wrong car.
for very pristnie cars, i accept zero chips and i am looking for basically NEW cars with zero blemish and i will pay way over mkt for it. for my drivers and track cars. like joe and pjs said, no level 3, not hit, then good enough. i dont run cmpression and leakdown either. if the leakdown is really bad, it will trigger ECU. if it's just single digit, i couldn't care less.
the qeustion is why do you want this particular car?
there are plenty of cars with better DME.
once you figures the "why this car" answer, it will become clear.
04-21-2014, 07:04 PM
#13
Don't assume tracked cars can't be CPO'd. They can be. If you are concerned, go make friends with your local service manager and be honest with him. Most will tell you pretty quickly whether they are track friendly or not.
Mine has a roll bar and harnesses and has been repaired without issue.
Mine has a roll bar and harnesses and has been repaired without issue.
Track cars are fine. (if they were maintained as such)
Look at over rev history.
Service records are a must. If serviced at an indy, talk to them.
Track cars should have their oil changed more often. Look for that.
Track car wear items would include:
brake calliper dust boots (typically melt and crack from heat)
Paint (look for obvious track rash from debre etc)
Brake calliper mounting hardware. Excessive brake changes will time out the threads. Proper fix is install studs like the cup car.
Look for cut carpets and drilled/welded floor mounts left behind from roll bars.
All the above is why tracked car typically sell for less then street driven cars.
Again, nothing serious. But keep a keen eye when it comes to negotiating as these thing are a factor.
Look at over rev history.
Service records are a must. If serviced at an indy, talk to them.
Track cars should have their oil changed more often. Look for that.
Track car wear items would include:
brake calliper dust boots (typically melt and crack from heat)
Paint (look for obvious track rash from debre etc)
Brake calliper mounting hardware. Excessive brake changes will time out the threads. Proper fix is install studs like the cup car.
Look for cut carpets and drilled/welded floor mounts left behind from roll bars.
All the above is why tracked car typically sell for less then street driven cars.
Again, nothing serious. But keep a keen eye when it comes to negotiating as these thing are a factor.
04-21-2014, 07:54 PM
#14
i dont mean to be crass.
based on the info you asked, you are looknig at the wrong car.
for very pristnie cars, i accept zero chips and i am looking for basically NEW cars with zero blemish and i will pay way over mkt for it. for my drivers and track cars. like joe and pjs said, no level 3, not hit, then good enough. i dont run cmpression and leakdown either. if the leakdown is really bad, it will trigger ECU. if it's just single digit, i couldn't care less.
the qeustion is why do you want this particular car?
there are plenty of cars with better DME.
once you figures the "why this car" answer, it will become clear.
based on the info you asked, you are looknig at the wrong car.
for very pristnie cars, i accept zero chips and i am looking for basically NEW cars with zero blemish and i will pay way over mkt for it. for my drivers and track cars. like joe and pjs said, no level 3, not hit, then good enough. i dont run cmpression and leakdown either. if the leakdown is really bad, it will trigger ECU. if it's just single digit, i couldn't care less.
the qeustion is why do you want this particular car?
there are plenty of cars with better DME.
once you figures the "why this car" answer, it will become clear.
