aussie jimmy

i'm not feeling the digital-ness.
you can hear the motor in the video when the gears change: too digital.
people will love it though, like they love their iphone.

aussie jimmy

peter - did you just buy another merc?

MM3.9GT3

John: Chris Harris has a contract with Porsche, correct? If the answer is yes, his opinion cannot be truly independent.

TurboS

Eccentrics were at Circuit Mt Tremblant last weekend. What a track!
One of the instructors was wearing this T Shirt.
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

F1CrazyDriver

Yup...

what most people have to realize is
7:25 x 60 seconds = 445 seconds
7:27 x 60 seconds = 447

445/447 = 1 +(- x)
-(0.9955257270693512 - 1) = x
0.0044742729306488 = x

that is how much the new GT3 has improved on lap times at the ring with RWS / DCT .....

So what this tells me... it can be down to driver / tires / track conditions... its so miniscule the improvement with a pro driver behind the wheel. Yes it has less power, but the new car has dct transmission to shift faster, and supposedly 1/2 car per shift . Yes it is heavier, but it also has more aero.

Anyways, great car this new gt3 but i'm in my late 20's... to me its personal. This was the last of the big marques with race heritage, that produced a manual, and my generations and the generations after mine, will have no sense of that amazing sensation that a manual car gives. Think of Senna in formula 1 vs. Alonso in f1 today. Different. They are both great, but very different sensation.

Some of you have 40-50 years of driving manuals. I only have 7. Like they say, we take somethings for granted.

side note: I recall about 7 years ago i wanted a SMG M3 because i didn't know how to shift a manual. LOL... i thought they were awesome and manuals were over rated.... coming from karting... my first go at a manual was not bad... within weeks i learned to heal and toe etc. After several months i started to perfect it, and now id say i'at or close to perfection every time, no matter if i have my loafers, if i receive a call from someone and diving from 120- 75 into a bend, and heal toeing at the sametime... it does not matter...i look back, and reflect, what was wrong with me wanting a SMG/DCT.. then i realize, it was because i didn't know how to shift properly...i was afraid. A manual car has thought me so much about balance, and dancing at the limit with the car... im not afraid of driving without ABS, my previous cars i use to remove the relay for the ABS so i learned.... my friend lend me his 79 SC modded, when i learned manual on my car, and their is nothing like threshold breaking into a bend with a manual in a old 911, going sidways and need to stay flat foot down with no lift or else you will spend off the mountain... sigh...



Here's a link of that moment in bold.

utkinpol

I do not see a big problem with it all. what Porsche is good about - you have choices. 924, 968, 993, 996, 997 and now 991 all those chassis have some issues and some plus and minus sides.
991 is indeed a street oriented high performance vehicle. yet it is just a car. indeed those who expected something like old 996 gt3 are not happy but what do you expect from a 2013 car? it has to be a GTR clone as market requires that to happen, to put electronics into each module even if it I not really required. it is what it is. there is always an option to continue using previous generation products.

Yargk

The 2014 GT3 has a lot less aero than the 7.2 4.0, more weight, and 25 less hp, so it's apples to oranges. The fact that the new GT3 is still faster despite that shows the benefit of the chassis and the gearbox, but those differences are worth way more than 2 seconds when you take into account why it should be slower.

The new GT3 is faster than a 4.0 in a professionals hands, definitely faster in an amateurs hands, significantly faster than a 3.8 RS, and way faster than a 3.8 GT3...

ShakeNBake

It's also running waaaaaaay better tires from the factory. I'm assuming the 4.0 times were set of the MPSC1/special rubber vs. the Dunlop and MPSC2 on the 991. That alone is probably worth a couple seconds on a short track.

F1CrazyDriver

As you know when you are doing statistical analyst. That net difference of .004 is nothing. If we had a standard deviation of error of .05, that would essentially mean their is no diffrence between the 4.0 and the 991 gt3.

Like I said, unless you don't want to understand statistical math, that .004 can be attributed to weather/driver/tires./improvement of circuit... basically what im sayings one cannot with 100% certain conclusion say the 991 gt3 is faster then a 4.0 with a pro driver... around the ring. Yes it is easier to drive the new 911 gt3, and the new gt3 has more aero. Please go read the launch press.

The biggest benefit is the transmission. If the transmission gains .5 of a car length per shift, how many shifts are their in the ring with a 4.0 ?

Lets keep a few things fix for a math analyst.
If the chassis are identically as good, that means, the only variable would be every shift the 911 gt3 should in theory gain .4 seconds...per AP stating .5 car lenght gain per shift. That means

S = amounts of up ****s per ring lap

S(.4)= x

If their is 50 up shifts, that means, that new gt3 should gain 20 seconds in shifting over the course of the ring.

How about down shifting ? Say 50 times... if its improving my braking points in reducing time and increasing my entry speed, lets say .5 of a second

D = down shifts

d(.5) = x
25 seconds

that means that transmission is worth 45 seconds ?

Yes only 2 seconds faster at the ring. Why ?
Is it the extra 25hp ?
Why is the new turbo slower then the gt3 by 3 seconds, when it has 75 hp more ?
Because by your theory, the turbo should be faster.

To me, what its telling me is, if the DCT gains so much time mathematically wise over every shift, why only 2 seconds faster.
What is the big flaw with the car that its no 40 seconds faster per every shift.

Weight ?
Chassi ?

Please explain with math. I like numbers.

stout

No, I know of no such thing.

pete

perfectlap

If that's true Porsche must not pay very well. I remember the one article where he said making payments on the 4.0 was costing him his first born and perhaps the second if he kept the car for too long.
Guess that Porsche contract doesn't come with a car discount.

ShakeNBake

It's not that simple. You have to think of this in terms of distance traveled over time.

Shifting faster gets you 0.5sec of acceleration. A simple way is to estimate what the impact is on average speed. Let's say that is 1mph on average across the track (I'm making that up, it's probably much less given that the 991 is dragging 100kg more around the track too). if you assume 7:30 over 8 miles = average 64mph, then improve that to 65, it's worth about 7 seconds. Very simplistic obviously.

Another way to think of it is in car lengths. If there are 50 shifts, then car A will be 50 car lengths ahead of Car B, which is 0.09 miles, or ~5 seconds ahead at 65mph average speed.

F1CrazyDriver

The best way of doing this is by doing some calculus. Integrations come to mind. riemann integration can be used so we can get a near absolute answer of elapse time from A to B, this way we can get see during acceleration the net value and during deceleration as well.

Using an avg of mile per hour is taking other things into account. I only wnat to take into account the acceleration during shift/down shift net gain and deceleration net gain , per Porsche stating no need to downshift, and cornering faster. So we have a lot of integrals to REALLY find out the true answer of net gain.

One thing for sure, i have a big suspicion I know what Porsche did with the 991 GT3 in order to get a slightly faster car then the 4.0. It should in theory be much faster(if both chassis are just as good and keeping everything else fix), but I strongly suspect, the net gain for PDK was bigger then 2 seconds, what that they did was soften the car up a lot... because with the PDK they knew they would be targeting a different market. AND THAT is what is disappointing in the "philosophical" side. imo. that said, they made a hella of a car thats fast on track and VERY useable on the street, and that any person with almost nill skill can take it to the limit...nothing wrong with that... but it no longer is that " driver rewarding car".. I remember vividly seeing commercials and brochures of the GT3 porsche, with no compromise for track heritage and driver reward. Well... can't say that anymore if you do some number digging.

ShakeNBake

The major explanation as to why the GTR is faster than anything else is confidence. Same was said by Randy Pobst about the ZR1 when compared to the SRT Viper. I can totally see that. The 911 is a compromised strategy from a confidence inspiration standpoint - and I have experienced this personally coming from BMWs and BMW race cars. IN fact I was just reminded about this last weekend at COTA. My RS grenaded a pressure plate/clutch and I was fortunate to have a friend let me drive his GTS4 M3 race car.

Serge944

Wow, really?

You're trying to use logic to analyze an illogical hobby. It's like screwing for virginity. We all have an emotional attachment to these cars - how they make us feel - and that's why we own them. Not because they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Certainly they're not the fastest thing out there...by a long shot.

Besides, if you add price to the equation (190vs130k), your analysis encounters a huge bust.

Maybe a more adequate comparison would be to the 2010 GT3. 15 second delta at the ring - that's an eternity.