997gt3north

just drove one on a small twisty track for about 1/2 an hour

questions for those in the know
- lets just call this a standard street setup, with OE tires at proper temps
- it was a paddle shift

observations
- gear changes were brutally hard - normal?
- turn in was good but then plough, plough oversteer
- obviously you can likely get it properly setup but here's my question

This thing doesn't come with a mechanical LSD does it?
- my gt3 just seems so much more planted as an observation, and by so much more i mean like way the fvck more
- i can absolutely see how a rich guy with little track experience would put this into the wall versus 'my' gt3
- you can really feel the weight difference though - car felt lighter, no rear wiggle (pre my solid rear suspension stuff) but also has less rear grip on throttle


This car with an LSD and a big *** rear wing would be fun to drive - but those gear changes were brutal

Are my observations correct?

Nizer

See bold.

kyrocks

You mean understeer bias I presume?

Randy M

What does the size of a guy's wallet have to do with his skills behind the wheel?

997gt3north

I believe I said rich guy with 'little' experience behind the wheel. Rich guy to afford the car - little experience because we all start at the beginning at one point. I had to catch the car on every single lap and multiple times per lap. The engine was fantastic and stability under trail braking was decent, not as good as with my gt3 with a Guard LSD, but on throttle it just wasn't predictable until I realized it was - it was just that it was a push, push then snap setup. I knew that if it was my car there was likely a lot that could be done from a set up perspective but there were a few things out of the box that I didn't like:
- paddles don't turn when wheel turns
- the brutal gear change upsets the car too much (that was my feeling anyways)
- i could definitely feel that it would be faster / more stable / more predicable with a LSD (my opinion)

I really liked the lightness of feeling, turn-in and the engine - but car doesn't feel like it grips like a gt3 and I can't see how that tranny stays together shifting like that.


Rad - you there and care to comment for a f430 newbie - thanks

DJN

I drove a regular F430 back to back on a racetrack with my 2010 GT3.......I remember thinking to myself, "wow did I save a lot of money".

Push, plough, understeer.........whatever you would like to call it.....yes it was there and rather bad at that.

Now an F430 Scud is quite and different beast.....that I liked.

Cheers!
Doug N

ProCoach

While I love and have time in F430's, the Scud is far better and the F430C is REALLY good. The GT3 is a better track car.

It depends on the settings (the shifts and the e-diff) how harsh it is.

If you half-*** it in Race Manettino, it's brutal. If you wail on it, it's pretty good... You might have liked CST (traction and stability off) better.

997gt3north

I've been in a 355 Challenge on track and the 430 was nothing like that - I think most of the handling issues could likely be fixed by changing the suspension - the 355 Challenge was 100% predictable and completely neutral - the 430 was the opposite of this.

Randy M

Probably my own sensitivities but I find when someone calls someone else 'rich' that is not a compliment. It parallels the comment 'must be nice'.

There's been a fair amount of talk of Ferrari drivers who are 'rich' but lack skills here on RL. It's indicative of the class warfare so prevalent in our society. Getting tired of it. I prefer using the words successful, hard working and perhaps wealthy as it doesn't have the negative connotation. So that's where I was coming from with my prior comment....

KaiB

I concur. We should never say rich, it's just not nice.

But I've also seen more than a few hard working wealthy guys who can't drive worth a fark...

zirrah

Well yeah but an F430 is not apples to apples. GT3 should be compared to the Scud. F430 is to be compared with the Carerra S imo.

TNetworks

So happy to hear the 430 is a relative pig on the track. What it is is a daily driver....an obnoxious one at that. To think I got a better car for 50% less....wow.

997gt3north

Ok, let's start again with no rich guy comments.

It was impossible to drive a 430 aggressively and fast- it did not work -at least in its street setup

It ploughed like a pig under throttle and when you waited to get the power down it doesn't hook up like a car with a mechanical LSD so you couldn't mat the throttle - you could but I just dialled in the counter steer as I did it.

I get it, it isn't a strat (gt3) or challenge (cup) - and I haven't driven a 911S on track but I have been a passenger in one and a 911S is no where near as bad in corners as a 430 - at least from memory

deputydog95

People with "excess income" tend to buy them as fashion accessories. That's a fact. I've done several Ferrari club track events and attendees were nothing short of "interesting" to say the least...

I had student (s) last weekend who brought a new 458 challenge car to learn how to DE. Their driving skills were atrocious and lived up the Ferrari owner stereotype. I own a Ferrari so therefore I must be awesome Their main concern was that they had the fastest car at the event. Not the least bit concerned that we had a train of boxsters, caymans, and E36 M3's piling up behind us.

I have to admit, the car was sick. They were gracious enough to let me drive it in the advanced group though for about 30 mins. Hands down the fastest car I have ever driven on a track. If I was "rich" I would own one

NJ-GT

The F430 is a heavy car, the 2007 U.S. F430 F1 on scales with a full tank of fuel hits 3,366 lbs. The 2010 GT3 with the same fuel load, is 100 lbs lighter. However, the F430 feels lighter, as it is a tighter car.

Most F430, and actually most Fiat are running on old tires. The stock tires were crap, and given the low average miles these tifosi drive their cars, it is not unusual to have a car running on 8 years old tires.

On top of the tires issue (age), there is also the compound (GoodYear F1, old PZero, etc).

Then there is the significant difference between front tires width and rear tires width: Front at 225 and rear at 285, for a car with a 45/55 weight distribution, not ideal, wrong setup that promotes excessive understeer.

The F430 has a LSD, one much more efficient and advanced than any unit in a GT3/GT2. It is a mechanical unit with a high pressure hydraulic pump giving and releasing pressure on the clutch-pack, controlled by an e-diff valve driven by its own DCU (Differential Control Unit), using parameters from the yaw sensor, steering angle, deceleration/acceleration, TPS, BPS, ABS, and manettino settings.

On equal tires grip, the F430 has better traction than the 997 GT3. The Scuderia uses the same diff, with just a faster computer. At Sebring turns where the Aero Beetles break sideways under power (i.e. T7) the Fiat diff just catapults the car out of turn on an even shorter gear and more torque being transferred.

Fixing a F430 for track performance is simple: proper rake, proper alignment, proper wheels, proper tires, brake cooling, stiffer springs. Fixing it for track safety/reliability takes a little extra: different headers, the rollbar is a custom made job, the rollcage is available from the parts bin, muffler, bigger cooling vents, multiple options for racing seats.