Carrera GT

I was thinking of titling this post simply "to ****** defeat from the jaws of victory" but the P1 isn't a center-seat driving position like the F1, so it's already a dropped ball, if you ask me. The P1 and 918 are as if born from the same electronic ******. Another wildly expensive technology fest for pretentious snatches and maybe 1 in a 100 will track the things in earnest, but to what purpose?

The only thing that comes to mind as I read this marketing blurb from McLaren this morning, perhaps something that could save the day, would be to see a factory series with the likes of the 918 and P1 (and others) at Le Mans or Nurburgring.

http://mclarenautomotive-news.com/V8...AYBYA5/cr.aspx

BBMGT3

Not that I could afford a $1mn car anytime soon, but I don't even want one. Or the 918. If you handed me the keys I would drive it for a week and then sell it. Am so utterly disinterested in battery technology in cars its unbelievable. Someone told the manufacturers that "eco electric battery powered cars" are what the public demands, the virus was seeded at the board level and now it just can't be controlled. Who cares that for the most part hybrid cars have been expensive flops. Lets keep building white elephants.

Bob Rouleau

Sounds like the 918 and the P1 are using the same play-book. Must be something brewing, CAFE standards perhaps?

Serge944

Are you guys kidding me? Technology right out of F1 in a street car. Hybrid is the only way to get such high specific output. Over 235 hp/L.

I also don't understand how you guys can have such a negative impression when you have not even seen, touched, or driven. Reminds me back when I was 10 arguing which car is better based on the table of specs in the back of a magazine.

And look at that interior!

Carrera GT

The "on paper" has the P1 at higher spec than the 918.
There's about as much "F1" in these cars as there was in F1 in the 90's, and there's still no programmable control, turn by turn settings, etc.
As for specific horsepower, what's the point? Other than rules wars, races aren't won and cars aren't better cars as a direct consequence of hp/l. Power-to-weight, center-of-gravity, polar moment, sure, these cars are, like the Carrera GT ten years ago, doing interesting things that are related to race program engineering, though not race, and don't end up in the production cars.

P.J.S.

I would rather have a beater CGT :-)

V10
NA
manual
glorius

maybe I am just getting old

gstahl

Ok, I think the car is cool and am not going to bash it. I will call BS on the specific output, with the question...

How to you specific output (hp/L) with batteries in the mix, since they supply power don't you have to account for battery capacity/size in the equation?

So basically I am saying hp/L does not directly apply to hybrid technology and cannot be compared to a non-hybrid design, hp to weight might be more fair if one wants to bring in the batteries.

Not saying this is a bad technology but adding in hp based on a system which is not counted in the equation is bogus (the best hp/L would be a battery only car).

Maybe there is already a way this is accounted for, if so, I stand corrected.

Serge944

The energy that is stored in the gasoline that fuels the 3.8L engine is the same energy source for the electric motor.

I don't set convention; however, you're putting in a 3.8L engine worth of gas, and you're getting out 900 hp. You're not adding anything to get the power from the electric motor. It is powered by the kinetic energy that would otherwise be lost to heat, as you decelerate.

I have never seen a specific output of over 235hp/L with a good powerband throughout the rpm range. You are still limited by the aspect ratio of your turbos and the rpm range at which they are efficient. So what do you do? You size the turbos for efficiency at high rpm (BIG HP), and the electric motor fills in the lag and inefficiency at low RPM. Whether the impact on driving dynamics from the added weight is worth the power benefit - that would take a test drive to determine.

At the end of the day, all things being equal, a lower displacement engine should be smaller (lower CG, lower polar moment of inertia), lighter (less mass), and more fuel efficient (less expense to drive, fewer pit stops on the track). How is this not a technological push in the right direction?

adrial

Flywheel hybrid > battery hybrid

C.J. Ichiban

fine. none of you haters gets a ride in mine when I get it.

I've already got the beater CGT (almost 11k miles now!) and if this car, as has been promoted widely, weighs in less than 3000lbs and with the handling they are promising (blows lateral G comps out of the water) this will be the most amazing car ever put on the road.

plus, the F1 costs about 4 million if you can find one. So, at 1.1, it's a bargain! lol

gstahl

True, not arguing against the technology of the car just what seems to me to be damn statistics (what other kind are there?)...

you are right that the smaller lower engine is desirable, but... That does not account for the mass of the electric motors, the batteries or other recovery system, the cooling for the system, etc.

Again, I am not saying it is not a really good thing, I believe that is the direction for the future because as you say we can recover energy we put into the car to use again with some frictional (so to speak) loss, the less loss the more efficient we are.

That said a car with a 1000 lb of batteries should not get a pass by just measuring engine size either. One has to account for elements of the hybrid system when figuring the effectiveness of the system.

My 2 cents.

tripleblack

McLaren has a high benchmark in the F1; and, more recently, a point to prove. Expect the P1 to be phenomenal.

zanwar

If you haven't driven a powerful electric car, you should. The power delivery is totally unlike an ICE vehicle. It's a legitimately unique experience. If Mac or Porsche manage to successfully combine the best of both technologies it will be quite an achievement.

Nick Wong

235HP/l. We are close with the Skyline GT-R on a preliminary tune with 3 psi to go.


That is at 20 psi, 93 octane Shell pump gas. I don't think that curve is bad.

3 more psi on 93 octane is probably the safe limit. I think it'll get very, very close to 600 whp/470wtq. At a 10% drivetrain loss (conservative) we are looking at 660whp or 235hp/l (2.8l displacement). Under 3200lbs wet, with AC, radio, and full interior. And 19 years old to boot. No VTG, no super new turbocharger tech, obviously no hybrid helper.

So it's possible. In fact, on 93 octane it's probably quite the norm in today's turbocharged world.

Serge944

I expect the p1 to have the urgency of a highly strung normally aspirated car such as a GT3. Just my speculation.

Now Nick, you're a smart guy, and even though there are EVOs putting down upwards of 300hp/l, you know the power delivery can't be described as linear, seamless, or flexible.