In what way is a GT3's Transmission different than a 997?
#46
I know this is an old thread, but I've been thinking about this topic recently. The 7.1 GT3 gearbox is pretty slow and stiff to get into gear, so I've been thinking about how to make the shift slicker, as I mainly drive it on the street. The gearbox reportedly had Mobilube PTX put in it about 3k miles ago, but it is super stiff when cold, and even when warm the shift is pretty balky. The description of Delvac when cold fits my cars shift action, making me think Delvac is actually in it. My plan of attack is to try Redline 75w90NS oil, then Delvac, then PTX to actually see if any of those make a difference. Lubing the transmission ends of the cables helped in a 987, so I'll try that. If that doesnt work, then I'll install the Numeric Shifter I have. In the longest setting, it actually felt like a stock length 987 throw, so maybe the longer throw and stiffer housing will help smooth the shift. The last resort will be to test a stock 996 shifter (since the cup shifter is no longer available) to see if that length of throw improves the synchro engagement. If that works, then I'll swap in the Function First bearings and hopefully have a long term solution. I'm not really interested cup cables because I drive the car on the street and do not want any buzzing or noise coming through the cabin. Anyone actually gone through any of this and successfully smoothed the shift action on their GT3?
#47
Rennlist Member
I installed the Function First bearings and have the short shifter option from factory. The manual says you can go all the way to 96K miles without changing the transaxle oil, but I chose to do it and went with Delvac after reading many posts. Can't say I really noticed any difference, but the function first bearings did tighten up a bit, and I wanted bearings for the long term instead of bushings which would eventually wear out- though my car is still under 25K miles and there really was no issue. There is a bit of a difference when car is cold, but it doesn't really get cold here, 40s once in a while-
If you do the Function First kit, carefully and patiently follow directions, and get the gearshift alignment thing, it's cheap
These days Porsche makes what, 13 variations of the 911?
How many have japanese transmissions I certainly wouldn't be happy about that-
If you do the Function First kit, carefully and patiently follow directions, and get the gearshift alignment thing, it's cheap
These days Porsche makes what, 13 variations of the 911?
How many have japanese transmissions I certainly wouldn't be happy about that-
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sumbaco (02-24-2020)
#48
#49
Rennlist Member
#50
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hi All,
I have needed to rebuild my GT3 transmission 2x - long story, but written up here...
At $10-$15K per rebuild - with labor 'free' - cuz we all know my time is not worth anything, I am VERY careful with it, and this is a track toy - no street.
That said, short throw shifters can add a lot of stress to the synchros, be careful. The Porsche 2010 GT3RS started using a slightly shorter, better (more metal bits) than the older 996 / 997 GT3 models.
I have tried Redline in a previous track toy - a high HP Subaru STi which has a fancy 6 speed tranny good for all types of HP, and quickly pulled it out. I have also tried a bunch of other synthetic and non-synthetic oils, and always come back to the Factory fill.
Bottom line, if this were my problem, I would use the appropriate Delvac with the 2010 shifter - which is exactly what I do. I also chance the oil frequently - several times a season...
Ray
I have needed to rebuild my GT3 transmission 2x - long story, but written up here...
At $10-$15K per rebuild - with labor 'free' - cuz we all know my time is not worth anything, I am VERY careful with it, and this is a track toy - no street.
That said, short throw shifters can add a lot of stress to the synchros, be careful. The Porsche 2010 GT3RS started using a slightly shorter, better (more metal bits) than the older 996 / 997 GT3 models.
I have tried Redline in a previous track toy - a high HP Subaru STi which has a fancy 6 speed tranny good for all types of HP, and quickly pulled it out. I have also tried a bunch of other synthetic and non-synthetic oils, and always come back to the Factory fill.
Bottom line, if this were my problem, I would use the appropriate Delvac with the 2010 shifter - which is exactly what I do. I also chance the oil frequently - several times a season...
Ray
#51
My cup car's GT3 transmission (996) I think had straight cut gears. I doubt the street car version has that due to noise, but I'm not 100% sure.
I agree that the rebuild costs on those transmissions are sky high..
I agree that the rebuild costs on those transmissions are sky high..
#52
What is the difference between 996 and 997 gt3 trans?
Could you build a 996 tranny to a 997 spec?
Could you build a 996 tranny to a 997 spec?
#53
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Here are the gear ratios: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...-question.html
Very similar beyond that...
Ray
Very similar beyond that...
Ray
#54
Here are the gear ratios: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...-question.html
Very similar beyond that...
Ray
Very similar beyond that...
Ray
is it all plug and play?
#55
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I just checked the PET, all the mechanicals save the gears seem to be 996 part numbers. This is for a 997.1. The gears are different. I suspect that this is mostly ratios, but can't be certain. Matt @ Guard could tell you for sure. I also sorta remember that perhaps 3rd gear is thicker...
It looks like it should just bolt up...
Ray
It looks like it should just bolt up...
Ray
#56
Track Day
Unusual question for GTgears
Just one point of correction. The G96.00 & G96.01 used in 996 Carreras is also a Getrag gearbox, and is actually identical to the G86.20 used in NJ-GT's 2001 Boxster S with the ring gear on the opposite side. They are German made and very robust. They use a G50 based differential, just like the GT3 does, and a very large ring and pinion gear.
The shortcoming of the box is the press fit gears that only allow you to rebuild it once before the tolerances get too loose and you've got to toss the shafts. But by then your ring and pinion and 1st/2nd gear should probably be timed out anyway. But service parts are readily available for them, and unlike the GT3, you can buy just a single loose 2nd gear idler gear if you have bad dog teeth. On the GT3 one must buy an all new mainshaft with 1st and 2nd attached to the tune of $2000 instead of the $350 the G96.01 2nd gear idler costs.
The G97 gearbox is the Aisin gearbox. And as of about a year ago it also became serviceable. You can buy bearings and synchros for them but they are stupid expensive. Designwise, it's pretty much a Japanese knockoff of the G96.01, though there is no parts cross compatibility. And 3rd gear does seem to be weak and a problem child on it when they are raced. But on the upside the ratios are a bit tighter together and shorter than the G96.01 ratios. And if one has an LSD equipped one, it's actually a decent functioning LSD that lasts a fair bit of time on track. GT3s don't get that.
The jury is still out on the 991 GT cars. The 991 Carreras are getting the PDK based 7MT. But here's the really weird one on this front. The PDK is a ZF designed and manufactured gearbox. The 991 7MT has been farmed out to Aisin. I'm totally amazed that ZF/Porsche would share the technology like that. Maybe the cost benefit of having them made in Japan/SE Asia makes it worthwhile. It is just out of character for them to share technology that openly and I also wonder how the bean counters at Porsche sold ZF on the idea unless they get a really nice fat licensing check for every gearbox made by Aisin.
The shortcoming of the box is the press fit gears that only allow you to rebuild it once before the tolerances get too loose and you've got to toss the shafts. But by then your ring and pinion and 1st/2nd gear should probably be timed out anyway. But service parts are readily available for them, and unlike the GT3, you can buy just a single loose 2nd gear idler gear if you have bad dog teeth. On the GT3 one must buy an all new mainshaft with 1st and 2nd attached to the tune of $2000 instead of the $350 the G96.01 2nd gear idler costs.
The G97 gearbox is the Aisin gearbox. And as of about a year ago it also became serviceable. You can buy bearings and synchros for them but they are stupid expensive. Designwise, it's pretty much a Japanese knockoff of the G96.01, though there is no parts cross compatibility. And 3rd gear does seem to be weak and a problem child on it when they are raced. But on the upside the ratios are a bit tighter together and shorter than the G96.01 ratios. And if one has an LSD equipped one, it's actually a decent functioning LSD that lasts a fair bit of time on track. GT3s don't get that.
The jury is still out on the 991 GT cars. The 991 Carreras are getting the PDK based 7MT. But here's the really weird one on this front. The PDK is a ZF designed and manufactured gearbox. The 991 7MT has been farmed out to Aisin. I'm totally amazed that ZF/Porsche would share the technology like that. Maybe the cost benefit of having them made in Japan/SE Asia makes it worthwhile. It is just out of character for them to share technology that openly and I also wonder how the bean counters at Porsche sold ZF on the idea unless they get a really nice fat licensing check for every gearbox made by Aisin.
#57
Rennlist Member
I know this is an old thread, but I've been thinking about this topic recently. The 7.1 GT3 gearbox is pretty slow and stiff to get into gear, so I've been thinking about how to make the shift slicker, as I mainly drive it on the street. The gearbox reportedly had Mobilube PTX put in it about 3k miles ago, but it is super stiff when cold, and even when warm the shift is pretty balky. The description of Delvac when cold fits my cars shift action, making me think Delvac is actually in it. My plan of attack is to try Redline 75w90NS oil, then Delvac, then PTX to actually see if any of those make a difference. Lubing the transmission ends of the cables helped in a 987, so I'll try that. If that doesnt work, then I'll install the Numeric Shifter I have. In the longest setting, it actually felt like a stock length 987 throw, so maybe the longer throw and stiffer housing will help smooth the shift. The last resort will be to test a stock 996 shifter (since the cup shifter is no longer available) to see if that length of throw improves the synchro engagement. If that works, then I'll swap in the Function First bearings and hopefully have a long term solution. I'm not really interested cup cables because I drive the car on the street and do not want any buzzing or noise coming through the cabin. Anyone actually gone through any of this and successfully smoothed the shift action on their GT3?
The following users liked this post:
sumbaco (05-19-2020)