Carrera GT

My point precisely. : )

Carrera GT

By what relative measure of performance are you finding the $185K 4.0 overpriced? Set aside collector purposes and their decades of garage time, let's just look at 7 or 8 minutes around the ring or less than 2 minutes around typical tracks -- relative to what car or what use of $200K is the 4.0 all that overpriced? Is it overpriced in terms of resale value or depreciation curve?

I don't necessarily advocate taking a $185K street car and risking its total loss (give or take $100K of relatively expensive insurance) for typical drivers at the track and I think it makes a mediocre road car, but I've not seen a good case to argue the 4.0 is overpriced.

In any case, the topic was strategy and direction for Porsche marketing. Yes, I agree they've misjudged in some ways, though Porsche is not about outright raw ground-stomping horsepower, it's always been about raw race-winning giant-killing performance that don't easily translate to the simplistic marketing of straight-line acceleration, top speed or other magazine-ready-to-print stats in the press pack. They've misjudged by ending the 911 as we've known it and starting a new 911 that's something we are yet to really know. We don't know it in the current 991. Perhaps the 991.2 or its successor will be when we come to know it. For now, we're looking at the first 991 GT3 as hope for the driver, otherwise, it's going to be a long, cold winter of discontent.

Bill_C4S

Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (PDK) was first used on the 956 and then did service on the 962, winning an international championship race at Monza.

utkinpol

It is useless for street driving as any gt3 'almost like race car' vehicle. But it is not a race car.
And speaking of real porsche race cars - used 996 cup is $65k-$90k buy, 997 cup is $90k-$150k buy.
I hardly see as any RS porsche car can be sold solely on 'status symbol' marketing - they are not such symbols anymore, in my opinion, well, may be except of a turbo car. RS is a track car and to price it almost where cup car sits is absurd.

Joe S.

Based on the price of the 997 Speedster or for that matter the GT2 RS, the RS 4.0 was a bargain...

GreenLantern

The Speedster...

I have to admit, I do like it a lot (styling-wise), but wow was it overpriced. I still see a handful either with just delivery miles or well below 500mi sitting in inventories. Every week I check, they're getting lower and lower in list price. Porsche Exclusive misjudged on that one, I believe. Much less when it comes to the RS4.0 or the GT2 RS (a pure beast).

Carrera GT

The Speedster is hardly a miscalculation. It was pre-sold to every intended recipient as the very top of the collectible, cognoscenti "reward" to a handful of wealthy types inclined to squirrel away these sorts of examples in their collections.

Of course, if anything, we're seeing the real price spectrum "exploration" under way and VW/Porsche has already declared their intent to move higher. Just look at outgoing Turbo S prices -- Carrera or Panamera.

If one runs a judgmental finger down the price list, it falls at the 918 Hybrid. That poor mongrel is destined to be the real "what were they thinking" lime green has-been that never was.

gtdoggie

I too thought that the 4.0 was "overpriced" until I spent my first few hours in it. Most of the people commenting on it have never driven one. They are looking at numbers alone and the numbers don't tell the full story of how special this car is. I come from 30 years of owning porsches and ferraris, 73 2.4 s, turbos, 997.1 GT3, 3.8 RS. I loved my 3.8 RS but the 4.0 is that much better(read the comments of the editor of excellence mag comparing it to the 3.8). The engine is magical. The car is one of the last and best examples of a raw refined machine that totally connects the driver to the road(read the review in EVO placing 1st ahead of the Mclaren, aventador and others in driver pleasure) It also is extremely exhilarating to drive on the road, not only the track. Add to this it's small numbers, it's closest connection to porsches racing heritage with that engine, and the direction porsche seems to be going and it becomes more evident that the 4.0 will become a classic that we will one day look back at as a "bargain".

mooty

the term over priced should only b determined by mkt not by RL.
Porsche has never made a car that had VALUE. something's always faster.
i have a 4.0. maps at 188.
if I post it today at 188 I think it will be gone by tonight.
reter, is zone and pjs take note!
if Carlsen would sell their sub 500 mile 4.0 at msrp it b gone yesterday
when cars sell at msrp quickly, it is not over priced.
now if u want to ask if it's drastically better than 3.8 then the answer would b maybe
if u don't have a car, then buy 4.0 at msrp
delta is 50000.( I bought another 38 at 135 vs my rs 40 at 185)
if u have a 38 already then keep it. when new 38 was 140. u lst ALL tax in ca then pay extra for 4.0 so delta can be 80+

above is a logical analysis of economics

but I wager to bet that every one of the 4.0 on RL were bought on a whim and on emotion

mr cgt would have his 4.0 before my arrived. but he's the only one I know who uses brain instead of heart to buy cars. good for him. my bra in was fried long ago


I also know someone here. who took delivery of 38 and b4 he had chance to drive it he traded for 4.0. now is he stupid? no. if he's that stupid he would not have made the money it needs to buy the cars. he acted on his heart. and IMO cars re toys and I buy toys based on heart and do business with my fried brain.

now carrera CGT, pls translate my mistyped gibberish into ur eloquent treatise.

aussie jimmy

i understand what you are saying

GreenLantern

+1

Tedster

We cannot look at Porsche alone as we have since it started. We now must look at it as an element of the VW empire and in that view only here is how it stacks up. Prices will reflect the brand's exclusivity, moving up as that customer's means improve. Note that the "recession" has not been too bad for the top 2%, so their cars have been getting more expensive. Note this relates to NEW cars. Used buyers are a different demographic.

Bugatti: Cost no object for the filthy rich. If you have to ask the price this marque is not for you. (the top 0.1%) Alternatives: Pagani, Maybach, etc.

Lamborghini: Ferrari pricing with Audi reliability. (for the top 1%) Don't care that they do not race as long as they get stared at by po' folk when they venture out of their gated community on sundays.

Bentley: Rolls Royce for the less ostentatious. Target is self made business people who don't care if their employees ask for a raise. (top 1%)

Porsche: Sporty cars for the working rich. (top 5%) Think they are wealthy but dont realize they are getting screwed like everybody else. Imagine they are on the Mulsanne straight on the way to work, take the long way home. Don't know how to drive a manual and don't care to be bothered.

Audi: Alternative to BMW and Benz for technocrats (top 10%) Know that quattro means they will not end up in a ditch when it snows like their neighbor with a BMW.

VW: Cars for the masses (top 50%) More edgy than a Toyota at similar price points.

Suzuki: Cars for the slightly poorer or more thrifty masses. (top 70%)

Seat: The Scion of VW, targeted at youth (where sold)

Jaan

The prices of these models have the cost of research and engineering added to it. This also includes the pay-rates issued to the scientists and engineers. R & D is expensive. Race-car components are expensive. I don't believe the cars are unreasonably priced. Now, where a potential problem can surface from is making the Porsche's mainstream and appealing to the broad market. A sprint (0-60) does not measure a car's potentials. A car is more than just numbers. In the 911's, the engineering with respect to dynamics is what makes it stand-out from the rest. It is also not easy to make manifest the idea of a 911 without the inherent flaws in it's dynamics for that set-up. Porsche so far has made something that logically is bunkers brilliant.

Bill_C4S

I see cynicism has its full dose this morning.

BTW Suzuki and VW are in divorce proceedings....

And below SEAT there is the Skoda....

VAG rather likes to exploit its platforms across price points.....

Don't forget a Bentley shares more than a little with the VW Phaeton...

to wit, the A series platform:

Audi A3, Audi TT, VW Golf, VW Jetta, VW Eos, VW Tiguan, VW Touran, VW Scirocco, SEAT León, SEAT Toledo, SEAT Altea, Škoda Octavia

and D series:

Audi A8, Bentley Continental GT, Volkswagen Phaeton

utkinpol

it is correct.
still, there is a big disconnect in the approach Porsche tries now with a shift to more a 'mass production' model where they want to boost sales 100% or more and saturate market with Porsches while at same time trying to keep price level set by old strategy from sales of boutique items like 4 RS where price level was dictated by limited quantity of cars to sell.

I just do not find any logical reason for well optioned 991 'S' car to climb close to $140K after i choose all options i would like to have. It is a miscalculation in my opinion, but, who knows. Rest of 'marketing' right now is just to dump an extra $20K on top of that for each subsequent model, and that is pretty much it. But, again, may be Asian market will swallow it all and will demand more, who knows. World is very different nowadays indeed. But for USA market I would not buy a $140K 991 S car, there are better cars in that segment now.