Trofeo R Report
07-02-2012, 10:57 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Okay dokey...same tires but w and w/o flash. Two days.
I can't see how they will last any longer than the "old" Trofeos. Still some feathering of the center rib. I am very careful to drop pressures as needed and these spent 95% of their life so far at 29-30 psi hot.
-2.0 camber in the front and -1.8 in the rear and based upon the wear I would not change alignment. If I did it would to reduce camber. Some folks might think to try to move wear onto the two inboard ribs, that would be a mistake, they are there to carry braking not cornering.
Next event I will experiment with even lower pressures: 28-29 psi hot, maybe even less.
Would need to drive original and R back to back to determine any lap time difference but my gut tells me the R is a tad slower.
I can't see how they will last any longer than the "old" Trofeos. Still some feathering of the center rib. I am very careful to drop pressures as needed and these spent 95% of their life so far at 29-30 psi hot.
-2.0 camber in the front and -1.8 in the rear and based upon the wear I would not change alignment. If I did it would to reduce camber. Some folks might think to try to move wear onto the two inboard ribs, that would be a mistake, they are there to carry braking not cornering.
Next event I will experiment with even lower pressures: 28-29 psi hot, maybe even less.
Would need to drive original and R back to back to determine any lap time difference but my gut tells me the R is a tad slower.
The wear is much more even with much less wear on the very outer block like the original Trofeos.
07-02-2012, 10:58 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
07-03-2012, 12:41 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Just back from my first track day with the Trofeo R's at The Ridge. Unfortunately this was also my first track day at The Ridge also, so I can't be objective in comparing lap times.
Subjectively these are very grippy tires, like Savyboy posted, very progressive at the limit and the limit is very high. Carefully adjusted pressures to keep them at 2 BAR, and they were consistent from start to finish in a 30 minute session. On the track you can feel the limit approaching and as the grip releases it is a very smooth transistion. Once over the limit and sliding they can be pulled back very easily. Little if any noise at the limit. My best lap was a 1:55.9 and I have by no means learned the track. I would guess in the right hands with someone familiar with the track, low 1:50's are possible which is slick territory. For a reference I would say that I could improve my best time at PIR by about a second and or two, or a 1:27.
Wear looks just like Savyboy's maybe a little more "melting" on my fronts than what Savyboy has. I would say they look just like my MPSC's after the first track day and wear looks the same. I'll try to post some picks. I would expect that they will wear the same as MPSC's as far as longevity, but we will see.
I want to add that while ultragrippy track use is what you would expect with these, that they make a great road tire- quite and compliant, so whiel I'm sure the mileage and wet weather will be questionable, for garage queens it's probably a better tire than the MPSC- ride quality for sure.
Very, very, pleased- these are a great non-trailer, non-slick option which will keep you in pace with those that do. Stay tuned...
Subjectively these are very grippy tires, like Savyboy posted, very progressive at the limit and the limit is very high. Carefully adjusted pressures to keep them at 2 BAR, and they were consistent from start to finish in a 30 minute session. On the track you can feel the limit approaching and as the grip releases it is a very smooth transistion. Once over the limit and sliding they can be pulled back very easily. Little if any noise at the limit. My best lap was a 1:55.9 and I have by no means learned the track. I would guess in the right hands with someone familiar with the track, low 1:50's are possible which is slick territory. For a reference I would say that I could improve my best time at PIR by about a second and or two, or a 1:27.
Wear looks just like Savyboy's maybe a little more "melting" on my fronts than what Savyboy has. I would say they look just like my MPSC's after the first track day and wear looks the same. I'll try to post some picks. I would expect that they will wear the same as MPSC's as far as longevity, but we will see.
I want to add that while ultragrippy track use is what you would expect with these, that they make a great road tire- quite and compliant, so whiel I'm sure the mileage and wet weather will be questionable, for garage queens it's probably a better tire than the MPSC- ride quality for sure.
Very, very, pleased- these are a great non-trailer, non-slick option which will keep you in pace with those that do. Stay tuned...
07-03-2012, 08:47 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
07-03-2012, 08:02 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Pictures of the wear after one track day. Six heat cycles, 30 minute sessions. Rears look like they will last longer, these are just pictures of the fronts.
Edit: looks like Savyboy has abused his tires more!
Edit: looks like Savyboy has abused his tires more!
Last edited by montoya; 07-04-2012 at 12:02 AM.
07-18-2012, 05:31 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I planned to provide a full report, but here's my quick update:
23 heat cycles in three days so far. Very hard running the last two days, about 500 miles of hard fast laps- the front shoulders aren't corded but the wear indicators are gone. One more track day I would say, but they have provided good grip until maybe the last session at ORP but temps and wind were up so hard to say if a combo of dust or heat or both. I have more heat cycles than normal and more running time than normal in the three days since they were open lapping days (not quite at the Ridge, but it was 30 mins off and 30 minutes on, so close).
Set new personal bests all three days (ORP CW and CCW), so I'm please so far. I know others talk about mega days on other tires, but think more about the heat cycles. If I get around 30 plus, I'll be happy- that would be more like 6-7 days in a normal DE format of 3 run groups and two sessions in the AM and two in the PM.
The jury still out we have to see these things to the end. But so far, so good.
Oh- by the way, pressure is critical. I ran most of my laps under 28 lbs- the tires take a lap or two or more to get up to pressure when cold, I had the luxury of pealing off and adjusting pressures as needed- I never ran over 28 lbs for more than a lap. Managing them like this I never felt the performance degrade- very consistent.
23 heat cycles in three days so far. Very hard running the last two days, about 500 miles of hard fast laps- the front shoulders aren't corded but the wear indicators are gone. One more track day I would say, but they have provided good grip until maybe the last session at ORP but temps and wind were up so hard to say if a combo of dust or heat or both. I have more heat cycles than normal and more running time than normal in the three days since they were open lapping days (not quite at the Ridge, but it was 30 mins off and 30 minutes on, so close).
Set new personal bests all three days (ORP CW and CCW), so I'm please so far. I know others talk about mega days on other tires, but think more about the heat cycles. If I get around 30 plus, I'll be happy- that would be more like 6-7 days in a normal DE format of 3 run groups and two sessions in the AM and two in the PM.
The jury still out we have to see these things to the end. But so far, so good.
Oh- by the way, pressure is critical. I ran most of my laps under 28 lbs- the tires take a lap or two or more to get up to pressure when cold, I had the luxury of pealing off and adjusting pressures as needed- I never ran over 28 lbs for more than a lap. Managing them like this I never felt the performance degrade- very consistent.
07-18-2012, 06:34 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Montoya,
What alignment specs are ou running with the trofeos?
I've gone through several sets of R6 now and none has lasted me more than 16-18 heat cycles. 23 heat cycles and still good for another day on the trofeos?! Nice. Sounds like they're at least worth me trying a set! Even if it means less ultimate grip than R6.
What alignment specs are ou running with the trofeos?
I've gone through several sets of R6 now and none has lasted me more than 16-18 heat cycles. 23 heat cycles and still good for another day on the trofeos?! Nice. Sounds like they're at least worth me trying a set! Even if it means less ultimate grip than R6.
07-18-2012, 06:59 PM
#29
Race Director
DE's where I run are mostly 4 sessions per day which = 4 heat cycles. A good day at Sebring will net you around 150 miles of track driving. So you got 23 heat cycles and with 4 heat cycles an event that is 5.75 events...I assume you could stretch them another heat cycle to 6 full track day = 24 heat cycles.
This is about what most get out of DOT R- Comps totally pushing them to the end.
What is the cost of Trofeo's now? $2100ish...I was quoted $2195 a set from GMG....Trofeo is too rich for my blood. I get that amount of tire use from Toyo R888 for $1000 less....Nitto NT01 would cost less and last even longer.
Good reports...thanks for posting
This is about what most get out of DOT R- Comps totally pushing them to the end.
What is the cost of Trofeo's now? $2100ish...I was quoted $2195 a set from GMG....Trofeo is too rich for my blood. I get that amount of tire use from Toyo R888 for $1000 less....Nitto NT01 would cost less and last even longer.
Good reports...thanks for posting
07-18-2012, 07:19 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
DE's where I run are mostly 4 sessions per day which = 4 heat cycles. A good day at Sebring will net you around 150 miles of track driving. So you got 23 heat cycles and with 4 heat cycles an event that is 5.75 events...I assume you could stretch them another heat cycle to 6 full track day = 24 heat cycles.
This is about what most get out of DOT R- Comps totally pushing them to the end.
What is the cost of Trofeo's now? $2100ish...I was quoted $2195 a set from GMG....Trofeo is too rich for my blood. I get that amount of tire use from Toyo R888 for $1000 less....Nitto NT01 would cost less and last even longer.
Good reports...thanks for posting
This is about what most get out of DOT R- Comps totally pushing them to the end.
What is the cost of Trofeo's now? $2100ish...I was quoted $2195 a set from GMG....Trofeo is too rich for my blood. I get that amount of tire use from Toyo R888 for $1000 less....Nitto NT01 would cost less and last even longer.
Good reports...thanks for posting