My GT2 build over the last year
#31
Rennlist Member
Top 10 Pro drivers. #3 Hugh Bates is a used car dealer in WPB. #4 Chuck Veth Club Racer and is a business man. #7 Van Cleff SCCA club racer #8 Bob Knoerzer business owner who has been tracking for less than a year. #10 Andy Hollis Retired business owner, AutoX and recent track Rat. Those are the ones I know personally and they aren't Pro's by any stretch of the imagination. Of course you will ignore these facts as they don't fit your steriotype of OLOA top 10 drivers.
+100 on co drivers they need to be somebody you can live with for 8 days under stress and strain.
Peter
+100 on co drivers they need to be somebody you can live with for 8 days under stress and strain.
Peter
In my Bench Racing effort to join OLOA for next season, I have found that Top Ten overall is usually plagued by Pro level talent. Combining Pro Level talent with near 1000Hp AWD Turbo Automatic cars with ALMS Aero, makes winning practically impossible for the average Joe.
However, OLOA has plenty of categories, and one can run in a category, shoot for 1st place in class, despite of the overall results.
I know how much time I lose to a Pro at certain tracks, as in the past I had the chance to watch them driving customer GT3s when I had my GT3.
I think Top Ten is achievable by the average Joe with a good car, but Top 5 requires monster car and monster driving.
Now, I have to wait for the 2013 OLOA schedule, and develop a plan to take a 1st in some sort of class, like 1st place in the hybrid-SUV new class for 2013.
However, OLOA has plenty of categories, and one can run in a category, shoot for 1st place in class, despite of the overall results.
I know how much time I lose to a Pro at certain tracks, as in the past I had the chance to watch them driving customer GT3s when I had my GT3.
I think Top Ten is achievable by the average Joe with a good car, but Top 5 requires monster car and monster driving.
Now, I have to wait for the 2013 OLOA schedule, and develop a plan to take a 1st in some sort of class, like 1st place in the hybrid-SUV new class for 2013.
#32
Team Owner
Well...Andy Hollis is a multi-multi-time national SCCA Pro autocross champion....
#33
Rennlist Member
Peter
#34
Paul, the Ohlins 120/230 kit compresses the tenders at static load, so the car is always riding on the main.
The wheel rates in the front and rear axle are significantly different in all the 996/997/986/987, hence the split on spring rates, even more with the 996/997 due to weight distribution.
I ran over 10 different suspensions in my Fiat, in my quest for the package that gave me the best results, including stock suspension (with Titanium springs), Moton MotorSports 3-way, F430 Challenge shocks/springs, for the stock and Moton shocks, I ran a variety of spring rates, ultimately, I have been on the last suspension setup for almost a year as I found the happy place, rear springs are almost 2000#, and my tenders compress fully at rest. Car is soft on the road despite of the stiff springs, shock valving does the trick.
The wheel rates in the front and rear axle are significantly different in all the 996/997/986/987, hence the split on spring rates, even more with the 996/997 due to weight distribution.
I ran over 10 different suspensions in my Fiat, in my quest for the package that gave me the best results, including stock suspension (with Titanium springs), Moton MotorSports 3-way, F430 Challenge shocks/springs, for the stock and Moton shocks, I ran a variety of spring rates, ultimately, I have been on the last suspension setup for almost a year as I found the happy place, rear springs are almost 2000#, and my tenders compress fully at rest. Car is soft on the road despite of the stiff springs, shock valving does the trick.
Thanks Rad,
That was my guess as well, but given the high rate of the tenders 60/80, and a guess of their likely length, both the fronts and the rears are probably very close but just below the sprung corner weights.
If I had to guess, from the pictures of the kit and some history of investigating this stuff, the front Tenders probably support approx 450-500# and the rears around 800#. This would then imply that the sprung corner weights are approximately 100#s more than the compressed block weight at each corner. This in my research is one of the methods used to set up a cupcar (one of many, many different ways).
Way back when I did my Bumpy Track Sebring stock suspension thread, the idea I was suggesting was to pick tenders that would give you 100#s of additional load before they went to block. An internet acquaintence, who contacted me from the UK eventually did this was his TT-RS and really likes how it works.
The other reason to chose Tenders with high block loads like in this setup is that the car will and does actually get into the uncompressed Tender range in certain track conditions and it will land a tiny bit softer in transitions.
Obviously, as we all know, Ohlin's are world class dampeners, and most of the magic / feel is in the dampeners but the spring rate / tender rate choice in this application are very interesting - especially in my opinion the tender choices.
I have additional higher rate tenders that I ordered when I did my re-valve that I may continue to experiment with - i.e. getting the block loads of the tenders to be very close to the sprung corner weighs - thus creating 'more' active tenders on slight unloads.
#35
Team Owner
Maybe so but he isn't a Pro driver and Ann Hollis co drove my 6GT3 for 3 years when I was doing National SCCA Solo. Last time I talked to Andy they weren't standing in line with Pro drives. . Ian Stewart who drove with me in 08 and 09 when we finished 2nd is also an SCCA AutoX National Champion but he isn't a Pro Driver either. Leh Keen, Hurley Haywood, Matt Murry, Randy Pobst are Pro Drivers and OLOA Lap Dogs.
Peter
Peter
#37
Rennlist Member
Peter
#38
Team Owner
Well, then, I guess either one of them lied to me. Or you're incorrect. Can't be both.
#39
Race Car
Join Date: Apr 2005
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[quote=TurboS;9551457]Peter, you listening?
In my Bench Racing effort to join OLOA for next season, I have found that Top Ten overall is usually plagued by Pro level talent. Combining Pro Level talent with near 1000Hp AWD Turbo Automatic cars with ALMS Aero, makes winning practically impossible for the average Joe.
However, OLOA has plenty of categories, and one can run in a category, shoot for 1st place in class, despite of the overall results.
I know how much time I lose to a Pro at certain tracks, as in the past I had the chance to watch them driving customer GT3s when I had my GT3.
I think Top Ten is achievable by the average Joe with a good car, but Top 5 requires monster car and monster driving.
Now, I have to wait for the 2013 OLOA schedule, and develop a plan to take a 1st in some sort of class, like 1st place in the hybrid-SUV new class for 2013.
However, OLOA has plenty of categories, and one can run in a category, shoot for 1st place in class, despite of the overall results.
I know how much time I lose to a Pro at certain tracks, as in the past I had the chance to watch them driving customer GT3s when I had my GT3.
I think Top Ten is achievable by the average Joe with a good car, but Top 5 requires monster car and monster driving.
Now, I have to wait for the 2013 OLOA schedule, and develop a plan to take a 1st in some sort of class, like 1st place in the hybrid-SUV new class for 2013.
Top 10 Pro drivers. #3 Hugh Bates is a used car dealer in WPB. #4 Chuck Veth Club Racer and is a business man. #7 Van Cleff SCCA club racer #8 Bob Knoerzer business owner who has been tracking for less than a year. #10 Andy Hollis Retired business owner, AutoX and recent track Rat. Those are the ones I know personally and they aren't Pro's by any stretch of the imagination. Of course you will ignore these facts as they don't fit your steriotype of OLOA top 10 drivers.
+100 on co drivers they need to be somebody you can live with for 8 days under stress and strain.
Peter
+100 on co drivers they need to be somebody you can live with for 8 days under stress and strain.
Peter
#40
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Top 10 Pro drivers. #3 Hugh Bates is a used car dealer in WPB. #4 Chuck Veth Club Racer and is a business man. #7 Van Cleff SCCA club racer #8 Bob Knoerzer business owner who has been tracking for less than a year. #10 Andy Hollis Retired business owner, AutoX and recent track Rat. Those are the ones I know personally and they aren't Pro's by any stretch of the imagination. Of course you will ignore these facts as they don't fit your steriotype of OLOA top 10 drivers.
+100 on co drivers they need to be somebody you can live with for 8 days under stress and strain.
Peter
+100 on co drivers they need to be somebody you can live with for 8 days under stress and strain.
Peter
The AWD TwinTurbo auto tranny Nissan drives by itself, so even decent drivers with 700-800Hp can make it to Top Five in OLOA.
Ian is as fast as some Pros, most top level autocrossers would beat a Pro at an autocross.
I think Nick's GT2 has a clear chance for Top 5, if the axles, clutch, R&P and diff can handle the massive torque. A Nissan GTR distributes power to the 4 wheels, the GT2 only on two wheel with much more stress added to the drivetrain, I strongly prefer to see a VW at the top of OLOA than a Nissan.
#42
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Look deeper, 10 years of data rather than just 2012. As I said, Average Joe can make it to Top Ten, Top Five requires monster car and monster driving.
The AWD TwinTurbo auto tranny Nissan drives by itself, so even decent drivers with 700-800Hp can make it to Top Five in OLOA.
Ian is as fast as some Pros, most top level autocrossers would beat a Pro at an autocross.
I think Nick's GT2 has a clear chance for Top 5, if the axles, clutch, R&P and diff can handle the massive torque. A Nissan GTR distributes power to the 4 wheels, the GT2 only on two wheel with much more stress added to the drivetrain, I strongly prefer to see a VW at the top of OLOA than a Nissan.
The AWD TwinTurbo auto tranny Nissan drives by itself, so even decent drivers with 700-800Hp can make it to Top Five in OLOA.
Ian is as fast as some Pros, most top level autocrossers would beat a Pro at an autocross.
I think Nick's GT2 has a clear chance for Top 5, if the axles, clutch, R&P and diff can handle the massive torque. A Nissan GTR distributes power to the 4 wheels, the GT2 only on two wheel with much more stress added to the drivetrain, I strongly prefer to see a VW at the top of OLOA than a Nissan.
AWD will have the advantage always in the one lap because of less traction on street tires. AWD has won something like 8 of the last 9 one laps with the exception being Keen in the GT2 or it would be 9 straight.
On street tires, with high hp, AWD with heavy DF is the best combination.
#43
Nick, this is a very impressive build, quite expensive, but worth it in every way.
This car must be running 800Hp or so, 3.8 with new VTG Turbos, and custom tuned for race gas, a monster.
Is this the same car that wanted to challenge my lousy Fiat at Sebring on street tires? I feel honored, I cannot compensate for a 300Hp deficit, no matter how I drive.
Great choice on the suspension package, a friend is running the same kit in his 997.1 GT3, and I would go with the same kit if I were driving a 997.
Are you on the stock PCCB rotors and stock pads?
Check the gearing in the GT2 RS, the 997 GT2 is geared awfully tall.
My favorite GT2, is it true it is for sale?
This car must be running 800Hp or so, 3.8 with new VTG Turbos, and custom tuned for race gas, a monster.
Is this the same car that wanted to challenge my lousy Fiat at Sebring on street tires? I feel honored, I cannot compensate for a 300Hp deficit, no matter how I drive.
Great choice on the suspension package, a friend is running the same kit in his 997.1 GT3, and I would go with the same kit if I were driving a 997.
Are you on the stock PCCB rotors and stock pads?
Check the gearing in the GT2 RS, the 997 GT2 is geared awfully tall.
My favorite GT2, is it true it is for sale?
Thanks for noticing! As you remember, my car is a bit stealthy... The 68mm billet housing turbos are good for about 450hp of airflow before they become inefficient, so you are close on the power guess from what you saw at Sebring. On the stock block that sort of power would bend the rods unless you limit the midrange torque like all the other US tuners, and make it drivable by making it weak. We never got to try the highest power map at Sebring in April because of the rain- we were finishing up on the installation testing of the first ECU and just started working on the second one. That weekend was the first time that car was really driven since rebuilding the block.
Yes, I am still on stok rotors and pads. Top speed and mass are relatively unchanged. The displacement increase was done more for reliability than outright power, with higher flowing VTG turbos we would get more power, the block can handle the stress quite safely. I could change the gearing, but with all that power it's probably more productive to use the long gears and spend less time shifting. After all, I was deep into 6th at Road America on the stock block, so I'm willing to bet it'll be even quicker now.
Yup, this is the car I challenged you with. Never take a knife to a gunfight!
Is it for sale... I'd like to say it's a keeper, but a man's always got a price. You looking?
#44
Imagine if my car were like the other Champion GT2 build with yellow/black/carbon exterior... We would get tossed in jail right at the Tire Rack!
#45
Look deeper, 10 years of data rather than just 2012. As I said, Average Joe can make it to Top Ten, Top Five requires monster car and monster driving.
The AWD TwinTurbo auto tranny Nissan drives by itself, so even decent drivers with 700-800Hp can make it to Top Five in OLOA.
Ian is as fast as some Pros, most top level autocrossers would beat a Pro at an autocross.
I think Nick's GT2 has a clear chance for Top 5, if the axles, clutch, R&P and diff can handle the massive torque. A Nissan GTR distributes power to the 4 wheels, the GT2 only on two wheel with much more stress added to the drivetrain, I strongly prefer to see a VW at the top of OLOA than a Nissan.
The AWD TwinTurbo auto tranny Nissan drives by itself, so even decent drivers with 700-800Hp can make it to Top Five in OLOA.
Ian is as fast as some Pros, most top level autocrossers would beat a Pro at an autocross.
I think Nick's GT2 has a clear chance for Top 5, if the axles, clutch, R&P and diff can handle the massive torque. A Nissan GTR distributes power to the 4 wheels, the GT2 only on two wheel with much more stress added to the drivetrain, I strongly prefer to see a VW at the top of OLOA than a Nissan.
1. Drivers must know the tracks. No two ways about it, One Lap is a reconn event.
2. It must not rain. The GT-R is a game changer in this respect and history is starting to reflect this. Two more years and they will say you can't win without one. Glad I started the craze back in 2000!
3. Luck. No two ways about it.
4. Car prep and Murphy's Law. I've been there twice, and don't intend to visit there again. Intentions are all fine and good but in the end worthless with Murphy staring at you.
5. AWD is harder on drivetrain components, 2wd has traction issues. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
My theory on AX and One Lap- it helps if you are really, really good, but not as much as you think. Most of the racing is well above 70mph and that is outside the scope of a hardcore AXer. Reconn is far more important which is why one month beforehand all the crazy Lap Dogs run as many of the tracks as possible.