Lowly GTS Went To Orbit!
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
my dual tube JRZ RS are in work since end of 2009 and do work precisely same way as they were when i got them installed. I would bet if I take off those shocks and put them on a dyno they would probably show quite a different curve now compared to brand new JRZ RS shock as any damper gets beaten and its curve changes. does it matter to me? no. as when i do first DE session and if I feel shocks are off i just adjust them as i want them to feel.
if anybody will tell you that KW or PSS10 do last longer than Moton Pro - just laugh at him. It is a lie.
What brand to choose - it is really a big question and it is a budget question.
A lot of people use KW, mechanic I use who builds race cars and works cup cars recommended me to put jrz or moton pro - those with external canisters as they are better for racing and provide more linear curve under heat, load, etc., they are also of monotube design that phisically lasts longer. it is $5.5K or so for set of shocks with no springs. eibach springs with #150 tenders are about $850 for full set, nevermind what primary springs you choose - #600/#700, #600/#800, #700/#900 - it is your choice and depends of what tracks you run most - smooth or bumpy.
my dual tube shocks like JRZ RS are $3.2K new, so far they are superb, for how long - who knows. imho from street/race shocks it is the only choice worth money. RSS10 are quite good but if you wil want to use them with 600/700 or stiffer springs you will need to send them (brand new) back to factory to be re-valved as brand new they have valves set for way softer springs - i did confirm that and 100% sure of that. if you look at price of PSS10 shocks (not damptronic, those that are manually adjustable) you`ll see that it will cost more than JRZ RS after re-valving. all in all I do recommend JRZ RS if you cannot or do not want to install JRZ RS Pro or Moton Pro (as you rendered Ohlins off the list).
I think i saw somebody selling pro grade rebuilt 3-way Ohlins in the market section for a while for funy price like $2500 or so. check it out - may be it is still there. it was a very good buy.
05-02-2012, 12:56 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Really confused about what brand of shocks/springs to get;
KW....Orbit likes KW...but a friend of mine in Tampa went through 4 KW V3 shocks in a little over a year with street driving. V3 are priced in my range at $3k, the Clubsports are at $4k...I could maybe do those. I know Manthey and Brumos run them. ViperBob on these forums told me to stay away from KW. I do not want any issues and down time. I can't ford to take car to Orbit all the time to remove shocks for warranty issues and re-do alignments .
Moton...I was told they are not the same since they were sold. Plus they are $6k and out of my league and take more labor time to assemble and install.
JRZ....was told good shocks but require regular maintenance if tracked. Why?
Ohlins, Penske, Sachs.....$10k set up...uber baller and way out of my league.
Bilstein Damptronics....was told by some these are good no issues last a long time...others say they ride like a truck and horrible on the track. TPC likes them, ViperBob suggested them to me.
KW....Orbit likes KW...but a friend of mine in Tampa went through 4 KW V3 shocks in a little over a year with street driving. V3 are priced in my range at $3k, the Clubsports are at $4k...I could maybe do those. I know Manthey and Brumos run them. ViperBob on these forums told me to stay away from KW. I do not want any issues and down time. I can't ford to take car to Orbit all the time to remove shocks for warranty issues and re-do alignments .
Moton...I was told they are not the same since they were sold. Plus they are $6k and out of my league and take more labor time to assemble and install.
JRZ....was told good shocks but require regular maintenance if tracked. Why?
Ohlins, Penske, Sachs.....$10k set up...uber baller and way out of my league.
Bilstein Damptronics....was told by some these are good no issues last a long time...others say they ride like a truck and horrible on the track. TPC likes them, ViperBob suggested them to me.
even at my age.
05-02-2012, 12:58 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
this way
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...ve-begins.html
here with re-valving of stock PASM shocks and putting on stiffer springs is cheapest one and IMHO may be damn close to what you`ll get from shocks like JRZ RS or similar but in your case it is not possibe as you`ll need new ECU, new actual gt3 shocks, etc - so to get JRZ RS for you is cheaper unless somebody will donate you set of GT3 shocks for free. ability to adjust ride height is actually quite critical as you will need to drop car down without affecting working range of a shock piston.
PS. i would look for a used set of moton pros, buy it for $2.5K or so, then send it for full refresh ($1K) and enjoy it. But it will take time to find such a set.
05-02-2012, 01:06 PM
#34
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I've had no problems with KWs and run them on all of ours cars (the clubsport version). I actually just ordered a set for my 996 GT3. They're not quite as advanced a setup as a Moton or Motion Control, but I still street drive the car and don't want the maintenance/tuning needed to maximize a 3-4 way adjustable setup. On semi-slicks the 2 ways will be more than enough for my needs and I can still street drive the car. It still offers more adjust-ability than the factory setup so a pro can help me dial in the suspension without going overboard.
The V3s come with a lifetime warranty (none of your race dampers will offer that), although the Clubsports don't.
The V3s come with a lifetime warranty (none of your race dampers will offer that), although the Clubsports don't.
05-02-2012, 01:07 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
2-way adjustments (compression & rebound) is more than enough for DE's.
Agree the KW's are pretty good. The internal reservoir 2 ways are the spec shock onthe Spec 996 class in PCA, and I have coached in/driven/helped set up the vast majority of those cars competing nationwide. They are pretty damned good when matched with the proper springs!
Agree the KW's are pretty good. The internal reservoir 2 ways are the spec shock onthe Spec 996 class in PCA, and I have coached in/driven/helped set up the vast majority of those cars competing nationwide. They are pretty damned good when matched with the proper springs!
05-02-2012, 01:12 PM
#36
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Mike,
First I would like to thank you for letting us work on your car. It was a pleasure.
About the shocks, there are a lot of options out there. Some better than others. We have 997.1GT3 and 997.2GT3RS coil overs available.
Let me know when the time comes.
First I would like to thank you for letting us work on your car. It was a pleasure.
About the shocks, there are a lot of options out there. Some better than others. We have 997.1GT3 and 997.2GT3RS coil overs available.
Let me know when the time comes.
05-02-2012, 01:13 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
when i looked at KW they all were available only pre-packaged with some weird springs sets which were useless for me and were not valved to be used with 600/800 springs i needed. plus for some reason they all did cost south from $3.5K at which point it made whole thing pointless compared to JRZ RS.
a lot of 993 cars run KW, EVOs run KW, it is a well known brand, but imho when you shop for a track oriented Porsche build it is not a best choice.
a lot of 993 cars run KW, EVOs run KW, it is a well known brand, but imho when you shop for a track oriented Porsche build it is not a best choice.
05-02-2012, 01:14 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
PS. I think you are mistaken. just looked at spec doc and it says JRZ RS or grandfathered PSS9 if installed prior to 2010.
05-02-2012, 01:19 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
OK, I was mistaken, I just checked, you're right, they are JRZ RS's.
I'm just the dumb meat in the seat, telling them "add 2 clicks front rebound, take out one click front bump, add 3 clicks rear rebound & go to max wing"
I am no engineer...
I'm just the dumb meat in the seat, telling them "add 2 clicks front rebound, take out one click front bump, add 3 clicks rear rebound & go to max wing"
I am no engineer...
05-02-2012, 01:25 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
i just keep a lot of crap in my brain work related and not but it does not make me a better driver, unfortunately, it`s just a different thing... Mike, Orbit has quite a nice set of 3-way JRZs on their web site, if you negotiate to drop may be about $1K from that asking price considering rest of work to be done
- that would be a very good solution for you.
05-02-2012, 01:26 PM
#41
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I have my PASM control unit from my 997.1 sitting around doing nothing, let me know if you have any interest in it.
05-02-2012, 01:40 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
it is an interesting question as GTS runs siemens engine ECU and gt3 runs bosch. may be it does not matter to PASM CU but who knows. a lot of stuff on those cars is interchangable, may be this too.
05-02-2012, 01:46 PM
#43
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Yeah I know...it's not a real GT car...I get that but I'm doing the best I can for now and it seems like the guys on this forum are more into what I'm into...you all just get to drive cooler cars than the lowly GTS.
So I had a few issues I wanted help with and it seems like the only place that could fully understand and actually do the work was Orbit Racing in south east Florida.
Eddie, Roger and Steve really took care of me last week. My awesome neighbor let me borrow his plush F150 and trailer so I could tow my car over and then head down to Miami for business. All you SE Florida guys are so lucky to have a place like Orbit in the neighborhood. Orbit is so dang clean that I could drop my gum on the floor and pick it up and keep,on chewing! That's says a lot about a shop...when it's clean and highly organized it always seems like the moral is great, service is great and best of all the shop knows what it's doing. Of course Orbits racing history speaks volumes too. Also we have Eddie right here on our forum and he is a de friend of mine so I felt really good about leaving my GTS with orbit.
I searched and looked all over for an adjustable sway bar solution for my car. Due to the slightly wider rear cross member a GT3 sway bar would not fit. Some places wanted to just swap out the crossmember for the smaller gt3 version. What I found is that for some reason the PDK cars have a slightly wider beefier crossmember and I wanted to leave that alone. Orbit agreed too. So Eddie and Roger had a custom rear sway built for the my car. Now that is cool huh?
I also had some alignment issues. My front drivers side wheel looked to be pushed way out to the edge almost past the front fender. While the passengers side wheel was more inset. I showed this to a few other places and they couldn't figure out why. My lower control arms had the same amount of shims they would tell me but they couldn't figure it out. Well it took Steve at Orbit all,of 15 sec to see that my front subframe was shifted over to the drivers side.
I gave Orbit my alignment spec I had the car set to. They found that those specs were not with in spec...example...front camber was supposed to be -2.5 and it was at least -3. So Orbit fixed all that with a proper quality string alignment with the car sitting proper equipment for a string alignment.
Orbit did find out that my car sits slightly lower on the drivers side. The springs seem to be sagging. Car only has 7k miles on it so that's odd but the lowly GTS does not have adjustable ride height like all the real GT3 cars here have. So that has got me thinking about a real set of adjustable coil overs...man Orbit is like the dang crack house! LOL
So anyway, I would like to put out a HUGE thanks to Eddie and all at Orbit for their honesty, treating me like I have real GT based car, taking super care of my car and daily follow ups on the progress. I can't wait to get back to the track!
So I had a few issues I wanted help with and it seems like the only place that could fully understand and actually do the work was Orbit Racing in south east Florida.
Eddie, Roger and Steve really took care of me last week. My awesome neighbor let me borrow his plush F150 and trailer so I could tow my car over and then head down to Miami for business. All you SE Florida guys are so lucky to have a place like Orbit in the neighborhood. Orbit is so dang clean that I could drop my gum on the floor and pick it up and keep,on chewing! That's says a lot about a shop...when it's clean and highly organized it always seems like the moral is great, service is great and best of all the shop knows what it's doing. Of course Orbits racing history speaks volumes too. Also we have Eddie right here on our forum and he is a de friend of mine so I felt really good about leaving my GTS with orbit.
I searched and looked all over for an adjustable sway bar solution for my car. Due to the slightly wider rear cross member a GT3 sway bar would not fit. Some places wanted to just swap out the crossmember for the smaller gt3 version. What I found is that for some reason the PDK cars have a slightly wider beefier crossmember and I wanted to leave that alone. Orbit agreed too. So Eddie and Roger had a custom rear sway built for the my car. Now that is cool huh?
I also had some alignment issues. My front drivers side wheel looked to be pushed way out to the edge almost past the front fender. While the passengers side wheel was more inset. I showed this to a few other places and they couldn't figure out why. My lower control arms had the same amount of shims they would tell me but they couldn't figure it out. Well it took Steve at Orbit all,of 15 sec to see that my front subframe was shifted over to the drivers side.
I gave Orbit my alignment spec I had the car set to. They found that those specs were not with in spec...example...front camber was supposed to be -2.5 and it was at least -3. So Orbit fixed all that with a proper quality string alignment with the car sitting proper equipment for a string alignment.
Orbit did find out that my car sits slightly lower on the drivers side. The springs seem to be sagging. Car only has 7k miles on it so that's odd but the lowly GTS does not have adjustable ride height like all the real GT3 cars here have. So that has got me thinking about a real set of adjustable coil overs...man Orbit is like the dang crack house! LOL
So anyway, I would like to put out a HUGE thanks to Eddie and all at Orbit for their honesty, treating me like I have real GT based car, taking super care of my car and daily follow ups on the progress. I can't wait to get back to the track!
PDK is boring.
Get a Fiat 360 Challenge Stradale, same money as your GTS, but a lot more fun, and just 3 secs slower than the Scuderia at Sebring, a 2:24 car on R888.
But, if you insist on the GTS, and want performance on a budget:
- 600/900 6" springs on revalved B16 connected to your stock PASM computer.
- 4 LCA with monoballs and metal bushings
- Switch to Pirelli Trofeo (I just read they will start to be offered on road cars)
- Remove rear seats, install a LW battery, get that trunk stripped from tools, loose the stock muffler and get something cheap and light.
- Repeat 997.1 GT3 alignment specs
If this modified GTS doesn't run Gold DE Cup lap times at Sebring, I will quit RL.
05-02-2012, 02:13 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
any thoughts/experience on the value (or lack thereof) of switching to the RS 4.0 springs on a 3.8 GT3 & RS?
05-02-2012, 02:15 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Why all this hassle if you just want to have fun!!! A Honda S2000 is more fun but they don't have a PDK version.
PDK is boring.
Get a Fiat 360 Challenge Stradale, same money as your GTS, but a lot more fun, and just 3 secs slower than the Scuderia at Sebring, a 2:24 car on R888.
But, if you insist on the GTS, and want performance on a budget:
- 600/900 6" springs on revalved B16 connected to your stock PASM computer.
- 4 LCA with monoballs and metal bushings
- Switch to Pirelli Trofeo (I just read they will start to be offered on road cars)
- Remove rear seats, install a LW battery, get that trunk stripped from tools, loose the stock muffler and get something cheap and light.
- Repeat 997.1 GT3 alignment specs
If this modified GTS doesn't run Gold DE Cup lap times at Sebring, I will quit RL.
PDK is boring.
Get a Fiat 360 Challenge Stradale, same money as your GTS, but a lot more fun, and just 3 secs slower than the Scuderia at Sebring, a 2:24 car on R888.
But, if you insist on the GTS, and want performance on a budget:
- 600/900 6" springs on revalved B16 connected to your stock PASM computer.
- 4 LCA with monoballs and metal bushings
- Switch to Pirelli Trofeo (I just read they will start to be offered on road cars)
- Remove rear seats, install a LW battery, get that trunk stripped from tools, loose the stock muffler and get something cheap and light.
- Repeat 997.1 GT3 alignment specs
If this modified GTS doesn't run Gold DE Cup lap times at Sebring, I will quit RL.