Mancation; Road America-Calabogie-Tremblant-Mosport....OH CANADA
07-31-2012, 05:39 PM
#1471
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TTS uses a 8.70 weight/power ratio, while TTU uses 5.50.
The 3.8RS with side muffler delete and broken-in run around 425 whp average. They would need to run at 3,550 lbs (including fuel and driver) to make it in TTS, with no chances for slicks (due to the penalty).
I would rather reduce power through a lower rev limiter, than reduce power through an intake restrictor, or even worse adding weight to the car, so the car could run TTS.
The fact that you can run A6, R6, BFG R1S, and some other sticky tires would compensate for the power reduction.
TTU is scary fast, 660Hp Vettes/Vipers, GT2 RS, modified GTR, lightened BMW with big motors, and some factory race cars, I get lucky that locally TTU is not at the top level of preparation, I could run my Fiat in TTS but NASA dumps it straight into TTU.
The 3.8RS with side muffler delete and broken-in run around 425 whp average. They would need to run at 3,550 lbs (including fuel and driver) to make it in TTS, with no chances for slicks (due to the penalty).
I would rather reduce power through a lower rev limiter, than reduce power through an intake restrictor, or even worse adding weight to the car, so the car could run TTS.
The fact that you can run A6, R6, BFG R1S, and some other sticky tires would compensate for the power reduction.
TTU is scary fast, 660Hp Vettes/Vipers, GT2 RS, modified GTR, lightened BMW with big motors, and some factory race cars, I get lucky that locally TTU is not at the top level of preparation, I could run my Fiat in TTS but NASA dumps it straight into TTU.
I can make 3550lbs easily and my old car never dyno'ed over 419...
Anything is better then 9+10..
07-31-2012, 06:18 PM
#1473
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It looks like I can set my rev limiter at 6,500 rpm, lose 100 whp on the dyno, and make it in TTS.
The tricky part is to find out what's the impact of 100 whp lost in a 3,250 lbs (race weight) car on typical racetracks. I can get some of that back by running Aero, but easily it could cost me 5 seconds at Sebring running at 365 whp rather than the current 466whp, but at the same time the car would be more competitive in class, easier on all the equipment, and easier to drive.
07-31-2012, 06:29 PM
#1474
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At 3,550 lbs race weight and 419whp, you can run TTS. My Fiat needs to run 55 whp less due to its lighter weight and the penalty for the sequential transmission.
07-31-2012, 09:56 PM
#1476
Nordschleife Master
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07-31-2012, 10:44 PM
#1478
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We have the Florida, NOLA, SouthEast, Mid-Atlantic, and NorthEast NASA regions with packed schedules, and decent number of entries in TTS.
Hoosier contingency pays 1st and 2nd place when there are 7 drivers in class, and 1st place only when 5 drivers in class. We won't have too much problem making a class in TTS in all the regions except Florida, because TTS down here is soft.
Tires payout is 2 tires per day (4 tires per weekend) for 1st place and 1 tire per day (2 tires per weekend) for 2nd place.
Using the Clarke school of Hoosiers, getting 8 NASA days out of one set is feasible (3 HC per day). Use new tires for the fast sessions on day 1 and day 2 to set a top time, put the other 3HC per day on old tires, then pick-up new tires and accumulate them. The Top driver can get 16 free tires in 8 days, and either order R6, A6 or Hoosier slicks. The 2nd top driver walks away with 8 tires.
The 3.8 Aero Beetles with the Orbit Aero tricks and the Orbit setup must be deadly in TTS. The track records in all these regions are within reach of Aero Beetles on R6, except the fishy stuff in Road Atlanta (a 1:27 lap in TTS). You don't need to set a new record to claim tires, just win your class.
Traffic is a low issue as TT groups are typically running their own session (no longer mixed with HPDE-4), with open passing everywhere and optional point-by.
Hoosier contingency pays 1st and 2nd place when there are 7 drivers in class, and 1st place only when 5 drivers in class. We won't have too much problem making a class in TTS in all the regions except Florida, because TTS down here is soft.
Tires payout is 2 tires per day (4 tires per weekend) for 1st place and 1 tire per day (2 tires per weekend) for 2nd place.
Using the Clarke school of Hoosiers, getting 8 NASA days out of one set is feasible (3 HC per day). Use new tires for the fast sessions on day 1 and day 2 to set a top time, put the other 3HC per day on old tires, then pick-up new tires and accumulate them. The Top driver can get 16 free tires in 8 days, and either order R6, A6 or Hoosier slicks. The 2nd top driver walks away with 8 tires.
The 3.8 Aero Beetles with the Orbit Aero tricks and the Orbit setup must be deadly in TTS. The track records in all these regions are within reach of Aero Beetles on R6, except the fishy stuff in Road Atlanta (a 1:27 lap in TTS). You don't need to set a new record to claim tires, just win your class.
Traffic is a low issue as TT groups are typically running their own session (no longer mixed with HPDE-4), with open passing everywhere and optional point-by.
08-01-2012, 02:29 PM
#1480
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Florida and NOLA would both be hard to get 5+ cars in TTS right now. But then again if enough people start to show up it may get some people off the sidelines to run.
Peter
Peter
08-01-2012, 11:24 PM
#1481
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360hp x 8.7 = 3132 with me in and gaz , i would have to remove a lot of thing i now stand at 3090 half tank me not inside hummmm Where is my grinder !!!! 996 GT3 makes sense then...
me 190 + half tank 120 (i imagine ) so the target would be + - 2800 I think it is doable with a full cage? RAD ???
me 190 + half tank 120 (i imagine ) so the target would be + - 2800 I think it is doable with a full cage? RAD ???
08-02-2012, 12:21 AM
#1482
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That car dyno'ed 366whp on a dynojet.
You're at 3,090 lbs with a half tank of fuel, so at no fuel is 3,038 lbs + driver (190 lbs) = 3,228 lbs.
At 366 whp, minimum race weight would be 3,184 lbs, so you are not far off. A full tank of fuel in the 996 GT3 is 104 lbs, 1/2 tank 52 lbs, 1/4 tank 26 lbs, so you can reduce a little extra weight from the car (no more than 50 lbs), add enough fuel for the track session, and make minimum weight with almost an empty fuel tank.
18x10 285/30 and 18x12 335/30 R6, and you can run strong in NASA TTS. They have plenty of events nationwide, with some close to the North border.
You're at 3,090 lbs with a half tank of fuel, so at no fuel is 3,038 lbs + driver (190 lbs) = 3,228 lbs.
At 366 whp, minimum race weight would be 3,184 lbs, so you are not far off. A full tank of fuel in the 996 GT3 is 104 lbs, 1/2 tank 52 lbs, 1/4 tank 26 lbs, so you can reduce a little extra weight from the car (no more than 50 lbs), add enough fuel for the track session, and make minimum weight with almost an empty fuel tank.
18x10 285/30 and 18x12 335/30 R6, and you can run strong in NASA TTS. They have plenty of events nationwide, with some close to the North border.
08-02-2012, 09:46 AM
#1483
Race Car
How often does NASA re-dyno cars? Random pick? all top finishers? I ask because we all know that each dyno is going to read a little different.
My '6 GT3 dyno'd on a dynojet and only made 342. That was completely stock and I haven't dyno'd since putting on the muffler bypass pipes but best case lets just say my car is 345 hp at the wheels. That puts my race weight right at 3000lbs. I've been scratching my head trying to figure out how to get my car that light in order to run TTS. I'd hate to go through a ton of efforts only then to have my car dyno'd again at the track and see much higher numbers.
I"m in the wrong region anyhow to try to be competative in TTS, I'm pretty sure I could compete with the exige cup that runs our region but I don't think I could touch any of the 'vette's that run in my region even on a good day.
My '6 GT3 dyno'd on a dynojet and only made 342. That was completely stock and I haven't dyno'd since putting on the muffler bypass pipes but best case lets just say my car is 345 hp at the wheels. That puts my race weight right at 3000lbs. I've been scratching my head trying to figure out how to get my car that light in order to run TTS. I'd hate to go through a ton of efforts only then to have my car dyno'd again at the track and see much higher numbers.
I"m in the wrong region anyhow to try to be competative in TTS, I'm pretty sure I could compete with the exige cup that runs our region but I don't think I could touch any of the 'vette's that run in my region even on a good day.
08-02-2012, 12:13 PM
#1484
Rennlist Member
You will need 3 dyno pulls on a dynojet SAE corrected and have the dyno shop fill out the NASA dyno form. If you make any changes to the engine/exhaust you would need to re dyno. As a practical matter dynos are not available at regular NASA events but they are used at NASA Nationals and all cars are dyno'd at least once.
NASA is also working on using Traqmate data to estimate RWHP.
If you can't get to minimum weight them maybe upgrading to Hoosier Radial slicks is an option.
Anybody in the NASA SE who runs who runs TTS is going to have to be on their best as the Corvette Mafia is really quick.
Peter
NASA is also working on using Traqmate data to estimate RWHP.
If you can't get to minimum weight them maybe upgrading to Hoosier Radial slicks is an option.
Anybody in the NASA SE who runs who runs TTS is going to have to be on their best as the Corvette Mafia is really quick.
Peter