911rox

Not necessarily NJ-GT. Hubs are currently being replaced on any car under the current recall where they show wear or marring as a direct result of bolts having been under torqued... I'm getting my rears done next week... They haven't failed but because of Porsches incorrect torque spec some premature wear is present which they want to address.

The explanation I was given is that undertorqued wheels can lead to movement of the wheel on the hub which leads to marring, fatigue and wear on the hubs which leads to a potential failure... The fact that the OP has freaked us all out and gone quiet doesn't help us understand what has gone on... Potentially, he may have had wear on his hubs (porsche's fault), not gone in for recall and tracked it contrary to advice given by them (his fault)... We may just not find out...

As for the pins, the just stop the wheel spinning on the hub... If you left all 5 studs on your car loose and tried pulling up from 120mph, your wheel studs would sheer and you'd lose a wheel... No different.

The root cause here is loss of torque and there are 3 possibilities as I see it:

a) OP didn't tighten them and grease them correctly and it came loose... (OPs fault)

b) the car had wear from Porsche's iincorrect specs and a recall wasn't done so the hub failed (fault depends on whether OP had received notification of recall)

c) the hub material is not up to the task and failed causing tension to drop and wheel to fall off (Porsches fault- and we're all f#%ked until its identified and sorted by Porsche

ps. Not a fan of CL, just having to learn to live with them as this is the car I want...

ChrisF

This thread has a little bit of a lynch mob feel to it. If in fact the CL material is structurally deficient and Porsche does nothing, I'll be in line to pickup a torch and a noose. There have been a lot of people jumping to conclusions in the absence of facts. How about we wait until we have some of those from the OP? I prefer them to wild speculation. Maybe in the minority here.

LastMezger

+1

ATL Fahrer

I see your point, but, having lived through Porsche's abject denial that there were IMS and RMS issues on the 996's, and a recall already on the Center Locks with everyone on this board saying that it was done simply to get new lugs with "500" removed, I am a little bit skeptical as to what we will learn from Porsche.

If you're not familiar with the IMS, go spend some time on the 996 forum. I believe that it has largely influenced the value of those cars and will continue to do so. Porsche has never admitted any fault here and its remedy is to replace engines at a significant cost to the owner after catastrophic engine failure. It took an aftermarket company getting involved to provide a "fix".

I truly enjoy my car and believe that the Rennnlist GT3 community is unique in that we use them as they were intended. Due to the cost, procedures, recall and failures, however, I'm going to continue to keep a close eye on this. Call me snake-bit, but, I do not believe we'll ever get an official response to what happened here.

Also, this is a discussion forum - this is what we do

masmole

We all want the truth, but unfortunately, on a public forum where warranty issues are at stake, the truth will never come out. Even if the OP did not follow torquing, breaking, and greasing procedures to a tee, it is not in their best interest to admit that here. Not many would, for the sake of saving face, $$$, etc. On the other hand, even if the metallurgy of these CL components are not up to the requirements of the newer torque specs, Porsche would not openly admit it, for similar reasons as the OP wouldn't.

I will echo what has been said by trakcar and Izzone already: it is alarming to see so many poor practices with torquing and breaking of GT3/RS CLs at the track. Well over half the people I've seen at the track with these cars don't even bring any tools with them to check torque before and during the course of a track weekend, nor are many of them aware of how the locking mechanism work. And of those who do bring tools, it's amazing to observe that some find it acceptable to break and torque the CLs with the car on the ground!! Some of the reasoning I've heard was "this is the only way to make it a one-person job". And almost nobody does the torque to spec + break 1/4 turn + torque to spec again practice. They just torque and go! Some say they overtorque by 50 ft-lbs to "play it safe." And so far at the events I've been at, I'm the only one who actually disassembles and cleans their CL assemblies periodically and applies new grease. There were some who after watching me clean mine that remarked "I haven't done that ever since I bought the car last year!" This was coming from someone who apparently tracked their car many times already. So with so many poor practices out there, I'm surprised not more of these failures from the CL coming loose have been documented. Perhaps because it was in their best interest to keep quiet?

ChrisF

ATL: I'm very aware of the IMS/RMS issues as well as the catastrophic coolant failures. I'm actually shocked that with as many documented failures in that thread that people aren't more up in arms about that. And yes, Porsche seems to be in complete denial about that too. There's a lot of great info on this forum and this thread in particular. Just hoping to see it stay constructive.

I too am shocked at the casual attitude of CL owners at the track. I was explaining to my friend that was helping me the whole procedure and what a PITA it is but that I would follow it to the letter as it impacts my safety. I was seeing speeds over 155 on the track last weekend and can't even fathom someone not taking an active interest in their own safety. "Torquing the lugs" was the first and most important pre/post session maintenance routine I was taught and I practice it religiously. Now, with the GT3, it just involves a lot more steps. On my first track day, I watched a young guy spin badly when his wheel flew off. Made a big impression on me

TRAKCAR

Was it a CL wheel that flew off?
You need to torque wheels no matter 5 lug or CL, but with CL I've never found they need to be re-torqued during the weekend..

ChrisF

No, 5 lug - back in 2003

TRAKCAR

Just checking ;-)

drdrank

Are you guys re-greasing every session, or every weekend?

Using the Porsche grease or something else?

TRAKCAR

Porsche grease as needed, once per track event at most.

NJ-GT

torque and re-torque, and re-grease, and re-check, and triple check, and get help from a friend, and the gigantic tools that barely fit in the car, and falling wheels.

Annoying !!!

Sell Beetle, buy Fiat.

Fiat just needs a key and a helmet, and you're good to hit the track. No need for a second job as a mechanic in between track sessions. No RMS leaks, no coolant hoses disconnecting from the engine, no faulty LSD, no obsolete shifting mechanism, no excess weight on plastic panels and cushions for rear passengers despite of not having rear seats, no rear brake killing ASR, no fuel lines running over the mufflers, no coolant tank sitting on top of the mufflers, no engine hanging behind the rear axle, no subframe, no ugly steering wheel, no ugly graphics, no power falling after 7600 rpm, no long gears, no small brakes, and better yet no Center Locks, just 20 Titanium lug bolts.

TRAKCAR

You have one boulevard cruiser for sale I bet to get the real man track car 4.0....

NJ-GT

I have a real man track car and it has a 4.3. Curiously, I'm trying to get rid off of another Porsche, to be replaced by another Fiat or a real Porsche.

TRAKCAR

Except yours, I only see them at the valet's..