Sway Settings
08-03-2011, 02:18 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sway Settings
Hey Guys... headed to the Glen for the maiden event for the 07 GT3. I'll be on Hoosier slicks with a very aggressive alignment and just wondered what the thought was for the sway bar settings?
08-03-2011, 02:37 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
proper way is to have pyrometer and measure if your tire gets warmed equally, core trick is to do measurement fast, like you can keep equipment close to pit lane so you could get in pits, stop and grab pyrometer right away. trick is to maintain proper ratio between front and rear and at same time set sways to proper 'base' stiffness so your bank angle in mid turn will remain optimal and provide max possible contact patch size = best grip. only reliable way to make sure where this contact patch was is to use pyrometer.
08-03-2011, 02:42 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
proper way is to have pyrometer and measure if your tire gets warmed equally, core trick is to do measurement fast, like you can keep equipment close to pit lane so you could get in pits, stop and grab pyrometer right away. trick is to maintain proper ratio between front and rear and at same time set sways to proper 'base' stiffness so your bank angle in mid turn will remain optimal and provide max possible contact patch size = best grip. only reliable way to make sure where this contact patch was is to use pyrometer.
08-03-2011, 02:48 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
rear at middle, front one hole away from softest. with 265/335 tires i had both bars at middle, with 245/335 i run front softest, rear at middle. but i have 600/700 lbs springs and custom built suspension. with 245/305 tires i had what i wrote in the beginning. plus on top of that i had different shocks setups for comp/rebound. kinda complicated but possible to make car work fine.
08-03-2011, 04:46 PM
#6
Given your track experience and slick tires I would say everything on full stiff with those tires.
If it was more of a beginner I would say, rear on soft, front in the middle.
Another approach would be both bars in the middle holes so you have room to go in either direction on both ends of the car.
What tires and sizes are you running?
What are your alignment specs?
What is you preferred type of setup?
I upgraded the rear bar to the GT2 bar and run it on soft with the front OE bar in the middle setting. So this would translate to rear fully stiff + a little on the GT3 bar and then one hole tighter than as delivered in the front. With Hoosier R6s in 19s (235/315) (these messages as 250/315) the car is very neutral.
If it was more of a beginner I would say, rear on soft, front in the middle.
Another approach would be both bars in the middle holes so you have room to go in either direction on both ends of the car.
What tires and sizes are you running?
What are your alignment specs?
What is you preferred type of setup?
I upgraded the rear bar to the GT2 bar and run it on soft with the front OE bar in the middle setting. So this would translate to rear fully stiff + a little on the GT3 bar and then one hole tighter than as delivered in the front. With Hoosier R6s in 19s (235/315) (these messages as 250/315) the car is very neutral.
08-03-2011, 05:09 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Given your track experience and slick tires I would say everything on full stiff with those tires.
If it was more of a beginner I would say, rear on soft, front in the middle.
Another approach would be both bars in the middle holes so you have room to go in either direction on both ends of the car.
What tires and sizes are you running?
What are your alignment specs?
What is you preferred type of setup?
I upgraded the rear bar to the GT2 bar and run it on soft with the front OE bar in the middle setting. So this would translate to rear fully stiff + a little on the GT3 bar and then one hole tighter than as delivered in the front. With Hoosier R6s in 19s (235/315) (these messages as 250/315) the car is very neutral.
If it was more of a beginner I would say, rear on soft, front in the middle.
Another approach would be both bars in the middle holes so you have room to go in either direction on both ends of the car.
What tires and sizes are you running?
What are your alignment specs?
What is you preferred type of setup?
I upgraded the rear bar to the GT2 bar and run it on soft with the front OE bar in the middle setting. So this would translate to rear fully stiff + a little on the GT3 bar and then one hole tighter than as delivered in the front. With Hoosier R6s in 19s (235/315) (these messages as 250/315) the car is very neutral.
Alignment Front:
Camber - left: -3.02 right: -2. 96
Toe - left: 0.02 right: 0.05
Camber maxed... like 8. something.
Alignment Rear:
Camber - left: - 2.13 right: -1.99
Toe - left: 0.27 right: 0.27
The car has been corner weighted to me.
Preferred set-up? Well... it would be nice for the car to have just the slightest hint of a push. It's been my experience in a Holy Crap moment that to safely extricate myself, I would rather handle the front with the gas pedal (lift) than the rear with the steering wheel with little place left to go. Like most of us I want to mat it on exit rather than tippy toe around it. And that's the goal for me really... being able to go full throttle out of the fastest turns on the track.
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08-03-2011, 06:16 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Preferred set-up? Well... it would be nice for the car to have just the slightest hint of a push. It's been my experience in a Holy Crap moment that to safely extricate myself, I would rather handle the front with the gas pedal (lift) than the rear with the steering wheel with little place left to go.
Just kidding, you will be fine.
I agree, I would keep the front middle and rear middle/soft, see how it feels. If it pushes too much on track out, just make front softer before you make rear stiffer.
And that's the goal for me really... being able to go full throttle out of the fastest turns on the track.
08-03-2011, 06:37 PM
#9
I would recommend to set both middle and adjust between sessions. It isn't just alignment. Tires, tire pressures and track conditions can all effect balance. Your driving style should also play into this whether you like a tight car, a neutral car or a loose car. Whatever works for someone else may not work for you if it does not match your driving preference. Start adjusting tire pressures first and then adjust sway bars when your tire pressures are dialed in.
I had a different alignment done where we re-clocked the center bushings on my lower control arms. Although camber settings are the same and caster is just slightly less, the car feels dramatically different and turns in a lot better. I went from full soft front and full stiff rear with the old alignment, to middle on both with the new alignment to keep the neutral balance that I prefer.
I had a different alignment done where we re-clocked the center bushings on my lower control arms. Although camber settings are the same and caster is just slightly less, the car feels dramatically different and turns in a lot better. I went from full soft front and full stiff rear with the old alignment, to middle on both with the new alignment to keep the neutral balance that I prefer.
08-03-2011, 06:45 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Given your track experience and slick tires I would say everything on full stiff with those tires.
If it was more of a beginner I would say, rear on soft, front in the middle.
Another approach would be both bars in the middle holes so you have room to go in either direction on both ends of the car.
What tires and sizes are you running?
What are your alignment specs?
What is you preferred type of setup?
I upgraded the rear bar to the GT2 bar and run it on soft with the front OE bar in the middle setting. So this would translate to rear fully stiff + a little on the GT3 bar and then one hole tighter than as delivered in the front. With Hoosier R6s in 19s (235/315) (these messages as 250/315) the car is very neutral.
If it was more of a beginner I would say, rear on soft, front in the middle.
Another approach would be both bars in the middle holes so you have room to go in either direction on both ends of the car.
What tires and sizes are you running?
What are your alignment specs?
What is you preferred type of setup?
I upgraded the rear bar to the GT2 bar and run it on soft with the front OE bar in the middle setting. So this would translate to rear fully stiff + a little on the GT3 bar and then one hole tighter than as delivered in the front. With Hoosier R6s in 19s (235/315) (these messages as 250/315) the car is very neutral.
08-03-2011, 08:51 PM
#11
Given your camber specs and tire sizes, your desire for a slight push, and to avoid the blue Armco that they will charge you for if you hit it, rear soft, front middle. With the narrower rear and sticky front slick with -3 front camber for good turn-in, versus -2 in the rear, I believe starting with rear soft is your best bet.
I would guess that if you plan on running these tires, then you may want to order some thicker GMG or other bigger sway bars.
I would guess that if you plan on running these tires, then you may want to order some thicker GMG or other bigger sway bars.
Tires sizes: 235 & 295 (19 inch)
Alignment Front:
Camber - left: -3.02 right: -2. 96
Toe - left: 0.02 right: 0.05
Camber maxed... like 8. something.
Alignment Rear:
Camber - left: - 2.13 right: -1.99
Toe - left: 0.27 right: 0.27
The car has been corner weighted to me.
Preferred set-up? Well... it would be nice for the car to have just the slightest hint of a push. It's been my experience in a Holy Crap moment that to safely extricate myself, I would rather handle the front with the gas pedal (lift) than the rear with the steering wheel with little place left to go. Like most of us I want to mat it on exit rather than tippy toe around it. And that's the goal for me really... being able to go full throttle out of the fastest turns on the track.
Alignment Front:
Camber - left: -3.02 right: -2. 96
Toe - left: 0.02 right: 0.05
Camber maxed... like 8. something.
Alignment Rear:
Camber - left: - 2.13 right: -1.99
Toe - left: 0.27 right: 0.27
The car has been corner weighted to me.
Preferred set-up? Well... it would be nice for the car to have just the slightest hint of a push. It's been my experience in a Holy Crap moment that to safely extricate myself, I would rather handle the front with the gas pedal (lift) than the rear with the steering wheel with little place left to go. Like most of us I want to mat it on exit rather than tippy toe around it. And that's the goal for me really... being able to go full throttle out of the fastest turns on the track.
08-03-2011, 09:40 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Car is off the stands with sways set at middle both front and rear. I did rake the wing so there will be a little added down force on the rear... I'll be fine and see where to go after a run. I've got thousands of laps at the Glen so I'll know pretty quickly how it needs to be adjusted. The outer loop will tell me everything.
Thanks to everyone for the input -- I'll let you know how it work out.
I purchased this car for a non-issue, arrive and drive, track machine and do not plan on modifying anything unless it is absolutely necessary and this includes the drop links that I carry an extra set of in the tool box. I plan on 50/50 street track and I'll be keep the 235/295 stagger until I can get slicks with a 235/305 stagger. I believe the Hoosier 295 radial is about the same as the 305 street rubber, but could be wrong.
Again... thanks for the input.
Thanks to everyone for the input -- I'll let you know how it work out.
I purchased this car for a non-issue, arrive and drive, track machine and do not plan on modifying anything unless it is absolutely necessary and this includes the drop links that I carry an extra set of in the tool box. I plan on 50/50 street track and I'll be keep the 235/295 stagger until I can get slicks with a 235/305 stagger. I believe the Hoosier 295 radial is about the same as the 305 street rubber, but could be wrong.
Again... thanks for the input.
08-03-2011, 11:15 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
GT2Bar.One of the best and cheapest suspension upgrades for the 7.1's ... pretty much a must have for a track car
I always thought everyone was nuts complaining about GT3.1 understeer, but I am the nutty exception...
08-04-2011, 08:34 AM
#15
I think a lot of it, not all, was trying to get the car to work with the OE 235/305 MPSC+ tires. That front tire, with some sort of reasonable alignment, just didn't work with the rear. I'm not an aggressive rotate the throttle with the car with the right foot guy, but it just didn't work for me. Now switch the tires to R6s in 19s, or 255/315 R888s in 18 or other (especially with more front tire) and the car was fine. Also, when the car came out people were trying the Track Spec Alignment from the car manual (-2f,-2.5r) and again that alignment is just wrong (in most people's opinion)