Steel rotor options for 997.1 GT3 with PCCBs
10-27-2010, 07:49 PM
#16
Instructor
Thread Starter
I went with brembo type III front and rear on my 997.1 RS PCCB with pagid RS29 pads
Direct bolt on
I went thru the same list when I changed over -- and IIRC my options were pretty much limited to stop tech and brembo... with GD in development. I did not really look much further than those three brands so there could be more but I was finding that a 380mm replacement is not that common.
Any brembo seller can get them - I got mine at speedware in Redmond, WA.
I have not had to replace them yet so I cannot speak to availability of replacement parts but it is brembo so I am anticipating that it will not be too bad.
Cost - not inexpensive... IIRC approx $2500 for the fronts and less for the rears but check around... I try not to remember prices as it depresses me.
Functionality - direct bolt on and ebrake compatible and work with OEM calipers etc - very easy
Performance - top notch... but pads squeeze rotors and stop the car... are they better or worse than others... I cannot say. Am I pleased with performance and longevity - yes. They have about 10 track days on them this year and are still looking good.
Direct bolt on
I went thru the same list when I changed over -- and IIRC my options were pretty much limited to stop tech and brembo... with GD in development. I did not really look much further than those three brands so there could be more but I was finding that a 380mm replacement is not that common.
Any brembo seller can get them - I got mine at speedware in Redmond, WA.
I have not had to replace them yet so I cannot speak to availability of replacement parts but it is brembo so I am anticipating that it will not be too bad.
Cost - not inexpensive... IIRC approx $2500 for the fronts and less for the rears but check around... I try not to remember prices as it depresses me.
Functionality - direct bolt on and ebrake compatible and work with OEM calipers etc - very easy
Performance - top notch... but pads squeeze rotors and stop the car... are they better or worse than others... I cannot say. Am I pleased with performance and longevity - yes. They have about 10 track days on them this year and are still looking good.
I also went with Brembo Type III rotors with pagid yellow pads on my 997 GT2. The fronts are 380MM at $2,595 for both fronts and 350MM at $1,995 for both rears. Not cheap but a lot cheaper than replacing the ceramiics that I ruined in four track days. Front and back are both two piece. I love the feel and stopping power of these brakes. The fronts are narrow annulus and require a little machining down of the backing plate. Brembo does that for not a lot of extra money. Sharkwerks got the parts and did the replacement. Can't comment on how many rotor changes the hats will last because I haven't worked them as long and hard as Mooty.
So, it looks like this thread's first confirmed fitting and driving of steel rotors on 997.1 GT3 PCCB rotors is...BREMBO! Great news. Thanks a ton PJS996GT3 and rodjac for offering up your experiences. It appears from your posts that you are both happy and satisfied with your purchase. We have a confirmed 10 track days on a set without cracking (presumably). There is a question regarding fitment however: Do these rotors need extra machining for a proper fit with the 997.1 GT3 PCCB's? It looks like rodjac had to do this. I wonder if PJS996GT3 had to have his machined down as well?
Thanks again!
Dan
10-27-2010, 07:57 PM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
I went with the Stop Tech direct replacements. PFC 01 pads all around. (hats are a little larger than stock, so they will actually sand down the inside annulus of the pad so it doesn't contact the hat).
They work great. A little more shimmy than the PCCBs. Dirtier. All in all happy with them but.....
Why? I went through this process probably the same way you did. There's no way I'm replacing the ceramics and, if I sell the car won't it hurt the price if I sell them with iron rotors?
I say no. You will not get any big price difference for your mk1 gt3 with PCCB vs. irons. Therefore, there is basically no premium. So why have $15k worth of what some consider the best braking system on the market sitting in your closet just so you can sell your car at some point with them? I just don't think you'll take any kind of hit if you wear through your ceramics and end up selling the car with steels.
Other things to consider. Many believe the cost difference between PCCB and iron is greatly diminished when considering longevity. Will they last the life of the car like PNA tries to tell us? No, not a tracked car. Use the green motorsport pads which are designed for higher speed temps. I've heard of guys with tens of thousands of TRACK miles on ceramics and the P50s (green pads).
Sorry for the long post, but I just know that when I had my ceramics stashed in my closet, all I could think of is, "why the hell do I care what the next buyer wants." (btw, he'd still be getting larger calipers to accommodate 380mm rotors rather than the smaller - 350mm i believe - that a straight iron set up allows for).
That said, if you're interested, I'll sell you mine. 4 rotors with 2 track days, 4 pfc 01s (2 track days), 4 porterfields r4s (for street driving).
PM if interested.
They work great. A little more shimmy than the PCCBs. Dirtier. All in all happy with them but.....
Why? I went through this process probably the same way you did. There's no way I'm replacing the ceramics and, if I sell the car won't it hurt the price if I sell them with iron rotors?
I say no. You will not get any big price difference for your mk1 gt3 with PCCB vs. irons. Therefore, there is basically no premium. So why have $15k worth of what some consider the best braking system on the market sitting in your closet just so you can sell your car at some point with them? I just don't think you'll take any kind of hit if you wear through your ceramics and end up selling the car with steels.
Other things to consider. Many believe the cost difference between PCCB and iron is greatly diminished when considering longevity. Will they last the life of the car like PNA tries to tell us? No, not a tracked car. Use the green motorsport pads which are designed for higher speed temps. I've heard of guys with tens of thousands of TRACK miles on ceramics and the P50s (green pads).
Sorry for the long post, but I just know that when I had my ceramics stashed in my closet, all I could think of is, "why the hell do I care what the next buyer wants." (btw, he'd still be getting larger calipers to accommodate 380mm rotors rather than the smaller - 350mm i believe - that a straight iron set up allows for).
That said, if you're interested, I'll sell you mine. 4 rotors with 2 track days, 4 pfc 01s (2 track days), 4 porterfields r4s (for street driving).
PM if interested.
Also, if I decide to go with the Stoptechs, I'll contact you first as buying used always saves money. However, just for the completeness of the thread, would you mind telling me a good place to buy Stoptechs from?
thanks,
Dan
10-27-2010, 07:59 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
^ just have to machine the backing plate of the front pads a tiny bit... the rotors etc are straight bolt on.
I had to do this but forgot to mention it. You have to do this with stop tech's as well.
Although Pagid may make a pad that slips right in... I would need to check on that. Needless to say it is all very simple.
I had to do this but forgot to mention it. You have to do this with stop tech's as well.
Although Pagid may make a pad that slips right in... I would need to check on that. Needless to say it is all very simple.
10-27-2010, 08:01 PM
#19
Instructor
Thread Starter
Sorry for all the questions, but I hope to gather as many facts as possible before making my decision.
thanks,
Dan
10-27-2010, 09:05 PM
#22
Instructor
Thread Starter
10-27-2010, 11:45 PM
#24
Instructor
Thread Starter
That's interesting. Are these direct bolt on solutions for the PCCB equiped 997.1 GT3, or are any modifications required to make these work?
And since you mentioned lowest cost solution, approximately how much money are we talking here?
thanks,
Dan
10-28-2010, 12:18 PM
#25
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To expand a little on what pjs996gt3 said the disks fit without any modification. A little work needs to be done to the front pads. The hat attachment points are a little closer to the edge of the disk than for stock rotors. As a result the pads are very close to the attachment points or might rub a bit. The solution is to grind a little off the top of the metal backing plate for the pads so they are not quite as wide. There is no need to do this yourself as Brembo does the work and sells Pagid Yellow pads that fit.
10-28-2010, 12:54 PM
#26
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Dan,
Totally agree with your assessment about ease of sale. As a matter of fact, someone on this very board is looking for a GT3 and PCCBs are a requirement.
GMG racing sells stoptechs. I believe they were the developer of the system as well. Yes, the shimmy is under heavy braking. No big deal. Just different from the ceramics (which I've already gone back to).
Enjoy the Brembo's. Report back.
Totally agree with your assessment about ease of sale. As a matter of fact, someone on this very board is looking for a GT3 and PCCBs are a requirement.
GMG racing sells stoptechs. I believe they were the developer of the system as well. Yes, the shimmy is under heavy braking. No big deal. Just different from the ceramics (which I've already gone back to).
Enjoy the Brembo's. Report back.
10-28-2010, 01:07 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
call Dan at vivid racing he got the brembo direct bolt front about 2000.00 and the rear at 1800.00
i was going to get them but i said why keeping them in the closet
this year i have 17 events with 40 days of track whith p50 green pads no problems with the pccbs
i was going to get them but i said why keeping them in the closet
this year i have 17 events with 40 days of track whith p50 green pads no problems with the pccbs
10-28-2010, 01:23 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
10-28-2010, 02:18 PM
#29
Originally Posted by rodjac
steel...cheaper than replacing the ceramiics that I ruined in four track days.
I'm in this same spot and leaning on using mine in the instructor groups, next year. No closet. It would be nice to know more about causes of premature wear. I already handle my wheels as if the rotors are fine china and don't expect to go through any gravel traps in the 20-30 total event days I expect I will do. Is delamination the only sign its time to $$$?
I haven't been pricing Pcar parts in a while, but imagine the ~$4,500 per rotor price has got to eventually come down. Any comments/guesses on the rate that'll happen? There doesn't seem to be much optimism that the ceramic aftermarket void will become competitive for OE calipers.
I will consider PM offers on the full PCCB setup. Car just purchased at 1500 miles, zero track time.
10-28-2010, 04:35 PM
#30
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wogamax
I should clarify that the rotors that I ruined in four track days were the rears. The fronts looked to still be in good condition and are now on the shelf. I had one of two potential problems. These were my first track days in the GT2 and I may have been a little wild on the gas and kicked in the stability/traction control without noticing and put too much heat in the rears. Also the car didn't come with rear brake cooling ducts, which I have since installed, which may have contributed to excessive heat. I was also using the stock rear pads instead of the p50 pads which may have contributed to the problem. I am hard on the brakes and despite listening to Mario Andretti am one of the bad drivers who believe that brakes are for stopping the car.
I should clarify that the rotors that I ruined in four track days were the rears. The fronts looked to still be in good condition and are now on the shelf. I had one of two potential problems. These were my first track days in the GT2 and I may have been a little wild on the gas and kicked in the stability/traction control without noticing and put too much heat in the rears. Also the car didn't come with rear brake cooling ducts, which I have since installed, which may have contributed to excessive heat. I was also using the stock rear pads instead of the p50 pads which may have contributed to the problem. I am hard on the brakes and despite listening to Mario Andretti am one of the bad drivers who believe that brakes are for stopping the car.