Carrera GT

I agree with what you're saying, but your signature suggests you've not owned or driven, let alone campaigned a factory race car.

I've never done more than move a factory race car around in 1st gear. But from the perspective of driving a current technology Porsche street car around the track, I cannot accept the "Regarding the Angels they sometimes too have moments of absence." assertion at all. If you're driving a 2009 or 2010 911 with all the "safeties" enabled and manage to crash it, you've gone so far beyond the physics and limits of a road car that you're already on the Darwin dance card.

YearOne

The Cup car is an expensive thing to run with every component having a 'life' in hours until it needs changed or rebuilt although different levels of use can change this somewhat. What I would say is if you are a quick, good driver already than buy the Cup and get out with the best instructor you can find find for as many sessions as you can with full data logging facilities. Then get your race licence and go race the thing in a few longer distance races, track days are a waste for a Cup car and there is no substitute to racing!

TRAKCAR

Just cruising DE's in a CUP car does not seem to warrant the switch.

Just my crazy take on racing and race cars;
Going racing is like getting a second job if you want to compete. A job adds stress, you must test, adjust, analyze, setup, practice, tell people what to do, etc.

I'm not much of an outdoors man, but racing to me is like camping with noise.

As you indicated, maybe you can keep it in the middle and just chase qualifying laps that the race car drivers achieved during the last race at that particular track?

If you go fanatic, just keep in mind that while the others are sitting back and relax in between track sessions, you might be frustrated on the job instead?

If you like the challenge and pressure, switch if you want to sit back and relax, don't switch?

Nizer

If wallet and logistics allow then it's a no-brainer. Cup will be faster, safer, and more fun than the RS. Just know that the jump in performance will require a lot of coaching and time to maximize.

Ritesh

How many DE's have you done?

I wouldn't personally do it if you don't have a couple of years of track experience already. The RS is going to be awesome for DE's while the Cup car is not going to be used to its potential. IMHO one really needs to be very fast in a RS before considering the gigantic step up to a 997 GT3 cup. If you seriously are itching to get a cup then I would say get a 996 GT3 cup instead. It be less expensive to buy and to maintain and prolly give you plenty of grins.

tcsracing1

2006-2009 CUP car is not something i would want to keep, but sure would like to play with.
The trannys are a pain in the ***. If i were to get a CUP, i would prefer 996.
As far as 997 CUPs go however, i would prefer the 997.2 configuration.

08' CUP market price vs. your RS market price is??

997gt3north

- a 996 cup 'setup' to run 700/800# springs with 5 lug wheels would get my vote for a DE car
- this type of car would be loads of fun, it will be fast and safe and it will have a gearbox that many can fix / service
- and it can probably be had for 60k

Q&A

what are the general amount of hours you can run with a Cup engine and gearbox, and what does it cost to get those 'refreshed' every time ?

mooty

hum.... did you drive my car then???
that's sort of what i have.
but it will be a little more than $60k if you want it to look nice and all.

Q&A

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...7_GT3_Cup.html

thusly

Many good and valid points in the previous posts.

FWIW - I currently own a 996 cup, 996 RSR and two 997 cups (2005 and 2009), as well as an '11 RS. A few other points (in no particular order).

- I would drive the cups every chance I could, for safety, go fast and sheer visceral excitement of the cars. Nothing like driving on slicks and in a true race car.
- Allocate as much quality seat/track time as you can when learning the cups; and get professional instruction. If you aren't pushing a street car on the track (comfortable with car rotation, being over the limit at times and being able to control it), you are just burning unnecessary $$$$$ on the track running a cup car. Running on slicks is a learning curve by itself to get maximum performance and enjoyment, and to learn to really get the heat in the tires to maximize their effectiveness. Cruising around in a cup car during a DE is not likely to be very rewarding, especially if your lap times are slower than street cars (which they could very well be). Serious ego bruising!
- Make sure you can heel and toe downshift very well if you get a 997 cup; otherwise, expect unexpected (and potentially costly) rebuild costs that might also be pretty frequent.
- If you take great comfort with traction control and stability control on, you aren't ready for a cup. Learn to drive without aids.
- Don't be deluded into the statement that it is far cheaper to run a street car hard on a track than running a cup; mechanical parts wear, and really great grip does come at a price of increased wear. That said, street cars weigh significantly more than race cars, causing additional wear and tear. And just because a street car might come with a factory warranty, doesn't mean big brother can't read over-revs, misshifts, poor driving, spins, misuse, offs, etc. It just doesn't make sense to skimp on repairs or regular maintenance when you really want to push a car, unless one doesn't value their safety much. Pay now, or pay later (i.e. crash, broken part). The pay later could be very expensive.
- If you want safety, the cup environment can't be beat.
- Make sure you have a good race (not street) shop to support your cup car; while the cups are extremely durable and reliable, they do require specialized knowledge to insure their reliability, your safety and your fun. The more specialized the 997 cup, the more the need for support.
- Not sure if you like being the tow jockey as well as the pilot of the cup car, but no choice there if you are driving any of the cups.
- 996 cups are much more similar to the street cars than the 997 cups; the 996 cups are the non-sequential transmissions and abs. Learning curve is lower with a 996 cup than a 997 cup.

All that said, the RS is a truly fantastic car, out of the box, totally stock. The engine is noticeably more powerful than the 997 cups (I have a euro 2005 997 cup and a 2009 997 cup). I was highly uncertain I was going to keep my RS, as I have the cups and absolutely enjoy driving them. However, I tracked extensively this past weekend in the RS - no set up adjustments, stock MPSC tires, no five point harness - and ran times only a handful of seconds slower than 996 cups. It was totally rewarding, and I used all of my knowledge that I have gained in cups over the past year (translated, lots of seat time and instruction) and applied it directly to the RS. This weekend changed it all for me, and the RS is a keeper, at least for the time being. I will still use the cups whenever I can, but I won't be feeling like I will totally miss them if I am driving the RS. And the RS will get the same regular and rountine safety and other maintenance as the cup.

Good luck - all great cars with pluses and minuses!

F

911SLOW

Very nice thread guys.

John

PS.
My dream is to buy an RSR and put licence plates on it. But don't take me seriously I m a lost case.

cfjan

Thanks for sharing the knowledge.. can you clarify the point regarding the heel 'n toe w/ the 997 Cup? On the sequential tranny, does the ECU not blip the throttle during downshift? (this is just for my own education..)

Thanks!!

997gt3north

- a track friend recently bought one, it wasn't perfect but I thought it was just south of 70k
- he reached the same conclusion as you did
- i have also come to a similar conclusion
- i thought 12 months ago that a 996gt3 (street) in decent condition can't go below 40k as an addition 20k gets you a race car - at 40k they will be converted so 70k for the real thing is about right (my 60k should have been 70k)

mooty

no.
1. you need to engage/disengage the clutch per EVERY shift.
2. since it's sequential, to go from 5th to 2nd, your left foot would be EXTREMELY busy.
3. while all that is going on, you will need to blip with each downshift while threshold braking on a very stiff pedal with NO abs.
4. should you fail to blip enough, when the next lower gear catches, rear will lock up and it's merry go around time.

google a 7cup shifting video. just watching the foot work makes me dizzy.