New Centerlock Specs/Torque For Track Use. **Read This**
09-27-2010, 06:47 PM
#106
never greased it. probably never well.
when wheel falls off, i probably hit something
if still alive. i get a cup.
this is just insane.
let's be real here. how many of us REALLY going to grease this thing?
i chk trq on my wheel nuts 2x before and after each session (savyboy saw my ocd), hood pins about 20x before and after each session making sure my passenger door is closed by reclosing it 3x before and after each session.....
and even i think it's too much fess about this CL thing.
i seriously doubt ppl will continue to grease these things all the time.
when wheel falls off, i probably hit something
if still alive. i get a cup.
this is just insane.
let's be real here. how many of us REALLY going to grease this thing?
i chk trq on my wheel nuts 2x before and after each session (savyboy saw my ocd), hood pins about 20x before and after each session making sure my passenger door is closed by reclosing it 3x before and after each session.....
and even i think it's too much fess about this CL thing.
i seriously doubt ppl will continue to grease these things all the time.
It does seem insane. I am **** about things as well and I torque religiously. 6 track days and 3 AutoX and not a problem at 377 lb/ft, now I realize i have been flying on a wing and a prayer????? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09-27-2010, 07:18 PM
#107
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I hate my Centerlock wheels. Followed directions. Did one session on the track and then it rained. Switched wheels. The rear wheels had loosened one quarter turn after 30 mins running. Yes they were torqued in the air to 600 nm and yes the rings were greased. Stupid idea if you ask me.
09-27-2010, 07:21 PM
#108
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I hate my Centerlock wheels. Followed directions. Did one session on the track and then it rained. Switched wheels. The rear wheels had loosened one quarter turn after 30 mins running. Yes they were torqued in the air to 600 nm and yes the rings were greased. Stupid idea if you ask me.
09-27-2010, 07:36 PM
#110
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It was obvious when I loosened them to switch wheels. Hope this was a fluke.
09-27-2010, 07:50 PM
#112
GT3 player par excellence
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09-27-2010, 07:52 PM
#113
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Ahhhh..... , don't say that. I just paid $32 bucks for my "special" wheel lube. Porsche PN#00004302000, Optimoly paste. It's now made by Castrol, Optimol Paste TA. I'm ready to butter the livin daylights out of these things, read the TSB 3 or 4 times now. I won't be deterred!
It does seem insane. I am **** about things as well and I torque religiously. 6 track days and 3 AutoX and not a problem at 377 lb/ft, now I realize i have been flying on a wing and a prayer????? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It does seem insane. I am **** about things as well and I torque religiously. 6 track days and 3 AutoX and not a problem at 377 lb/ft, now I realize i have been flying on a wing and a prayer????? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but not as much as you.
i dont mind greasing them 2x a year. but IF it must be done EVERY time the nut is off....... i think i'll drive without the wheels.
i have some weird psycho issues.
for example, i ordered a e60m5 when they first came out. car arrived. they ALL HAD GPS TV screen on the car. i just forfeited my deposit. i can't deal with that screen.
09-27-2010, 08:07 PM
#114
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Glad the loosness seems unique. I will continue to chalk the centerlocks because I am OCD when it comes to wheels falling off!
09-27-2010, 08:18 PM
#115
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i have followed a cup car with wheels flying off at T8 of WS, the fastest track on west coast.
i also followed a friend's mini cooper s with flying wheels off T5 at TH.
it's quite disturbing.
will the wheel hit me or will the car hit me or will i hit the wall trying to avoid getting hit....
i also followed a friend's mini cooper s with flying wheels off T5 at TH.
it's quite disturbing.
will the wheel hit me or will the car hit me or will i hit the wall trying to avoid getting hit....
09-27-2010, 09:02 PM
#116
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Question...
Why would you have to have the car in the air to torque the wheels, provided that you had somebody or a large dumbbell, or that steering wheel brake thingie ?
Can't you torque the wheels with the brakes on while the car is on the ground ?
Will torqueing the wheels to 444 ft lbs.....could it possibly damage the ceter lock ?
So 349 ft lbs is ok for the street and not the track ? (how about autocross...where speeds are below 85mph and generally much slower.
What if I don't use grease ? Will the wheels fall apart ?
I bet they had a situation where the wheels weren't properly torqued in a race type setting and they came off.
So 444 for the track, but at 349 for street...it's ok if the wheels come off the car ? WTF ?
Why would you have to have the car in the air to torque the wheels, provided that you had somebody or a large dumbbell, or that steering wheel brake thingie ?
Can't you torque the wheels with the brakes on while the car is on the ground ?
Will torqueing the wheels to 444 ft lbs.....could it possibly damage the ceter lock ?
So 349 ft lbs is ok for the street and not the track ? (how about autocross...where speeds are below 85mph and generally much slower.
What if I don't use grease ? Will the wheels fall apart ?
I bet they had a situation where the wheels weren't properly torqued in a race type setting and they came off.
So 444 for the track, but at 349 for street...it's ok if the wheels come off the car ? WTF ?
As far as the procedure saying "off the ground for torquing the wheels", I'm guessing that they want the lug dead square when tightened with no lateral force.
09-27-2010, 09:48 PM
#117
Talked to a friend of mine who has a 2010 GT3. He had a bout 10 track days on the wheels. The fronts wouldn't break loose. The dealer snapped 3 breaker bars trying. They finally heated the lugs to break them loose. My guess is that the standard torque of approx. 350lb-ft will cause the lugs to seize after repeated heat cycles (such as track use). Applying the grease would prevent seizing, but also make the lugs more likely to loosen. So Porsche spec'd a higher torque.
As far as the procedure saying "off the ground for torquing the wheels", I'm guessing that they want the lug dead square when tightened with no lateral force.
As far as the procedure saying "off the ground for torquing the wheels", I'm guessing that they want the lug dead square when tightened with no lateral force.
I can't think of a means available at a dealer service shop to heat that assembly. There's different metals and finished surfaces, so an open flame would be trouble. The chances of them having an electric heater seem slim to none. It would be possible to do something like thread in the bearing press and heat that with a direct flame until the whole assembly came up to say 150F. I'm guessing they didn't think along those lines. How did they apply heat?
You second point is certainly important. Once there's grease on the conic surfaces, they new torque number is probably very similar in terms of force along the axis of the threads compared to the dry torque spec.
09-27-2010, 09:57 PM
#118
Drifting
Thread Starter
Two things:
1. Way back when (couple weeks after delivery), dealer had to remove a rear wheel from my RS when it only had a track day or two on it and the conical area of the centerlock was lodged/wedged/frozen into the hub of the wheel. Had to chisel it out as I recall and replace the centerlock (warranty). Makes sense to grease and avoid this problem.
2. To remove the centerlock from centerlock nut for greasing...just whack it onto a protected surface (shop rag). Bam, and the inner part separates from the outer part. Very simply. How my tech did it as I watched him.
PS- I am considering doing a five-lug conversion as well. Much as I have the wheels on and off the centerlocks are a massive pain in the ***.
1. Way back when (couple weeks after delivery), dealer had to remove a rear wheel from my RS when it only had a track day or two on it and the conical area of the centerlock was lodged/wedged/frozen into the hub of the wheel. Had to chisel it out as I recall and replace the centerlock (warranty). Makes sense to grease and avoid this problem.
2. To remove the centerlock from centerlock nut for greasing...just whack it onto a protected surface (shop rag). Bam, and the inner part separates from the outer part. Very simply. How my tech did it as I watched him.
PS- I am considering doing a five-lug conversion as well. Much as I have the wheels on and off the centerlocks are a massive pain in the ***.
09-27-2010, 10:35 PM
#119
09-28-2010, 05:19 PM
#120
Another tidbit to pass along. I have stopped replacing the center caps on the track. There was moisture behind mine from washing with them off. The heat caused one to pop off in the garage. Steam was coming from inside the cap. I know it's going to require more cleaning and maintenance.
Great post! All I can add is check, verify and double check. Safety first!
Great post! All I can add is check, verify and double check. Safety first!
) and I couldn't get it to without removing the wheel and center lock assembly. When I did, I noticed water in the space behind the center bolt and the rim. I've never used more than a garden hose to wash the car but I would think that we should avoid that area as much as possible. Thankfully a CVR member had a suitable torque wrench and helped me get going for the last session
From now on I'm always going to bring one.