savyboy

I gave a fine gentleman a ride today in my 3RS at Thunderhill and he reciprocated by giving me a ride in his 2004 Challenge Stradale. We both enjoyed the rides immensely and the F car felt planted and rock solid and he was a solid advance group driver.

The interior, exterior and engine compartment of that six year old car was light years ahead of my 2010 GT3RS. It was clearly crafted carefully and lovingly and took a lot of time to create. In comparison my cars fit, finish and details were like that of utility van. We didn't get deep into maintenance but he tracks frequently and the car looks and runs great.

Was it slower than my RS? Yes. But not by that much. And if I wanted to park a car in my living room as modern art, the Stradale would be the one hands down.

Superquant is making a rational and fair presentation and I can't honestly fault his case. I have a 2RS on order and I do feel financially raped (my own fault) by Porsche. Is the 2RS a hell of a car? Yes. Yes indeed. Does it provide the "value" that a 458 does? Including being a piece of modern art? Nope. No way.

Porsche is one of the most profitable car companies in the world as we all know. That comes from having cookie cutter chassis with various binned bits hung on to create a differentation for model line-up. My garage shows where my money has gone, but every time I work on my car, I am reminded how my money went to line shareholders pockets and not into the parts themselves.



Oh PS a lady was there as well with a white 2009 Scuderia which was visually stunning. The craftwork of that car was just insane.

savyboy

See, If I didn't know you I would discount this as so much drivel. But I do know you, and respect you, and now I have a new and different perspective from having read your post.

Very interesting and I appreciate you taking the time and making the effort to throw that post up!

And fair and reasoned debate by all I would say...

Jake951

From the business point of view, you can't blame Porsche for trying to be highly profitable. They learned a lesson the hard way in the early 1990's when they nearly collapsed under large financial losses.

You have to remember that nobody NEEDS to buy a $250k automobile. For most of us, it's an emotional decision that can't really be justified by any objective argument.

superquant

This is interesting commentary - I can't say I disagree with you on the 430, the only 430 I was considering spending my money on was the scud, which is a very different experience from the standard 430. The 458 is my first f-car and it is all I was expecting so far (save the recall issue, hoping thats the first and last of that stuff ..). Also, according to more experienced drivers than me, it is their best car in a long time, so perhaps its worth your time to take a test drive to make double sure you don't need one!

I agree it will never be a classic, and perhaps the 2RS will be in 20 years. But really, those points are academic. Is there a single person on this forum that is buying these cars with those kinds of time frames in mind? Lets not kid ourselves, these are toys and if we keep them 3-5 years before rotating that would be very impressive.

Bringing this back to the original thread though, which was not f-car related at all - could you please explain how the 2RS is a "near bargain"? This is what I would like to get educated about. Porsche is charging same or more money than what McLaren will charge, and just look at what all you get with the MP4 ..

20C4S

i've brought up the point that Porsche makes killing product & always ahead of the game in terms of handling, reliability (RMS exclude ) etc. but they're always being cheap to deliver. i will have no doubt that Porsche can beat Ferrari in any given way in the product. however, when u consider value in the equation it'll just make u think twice.

it's ok for them to charge that much for the car, but they need to deliver more. i know the 2RS is limited to 500, and u'll get a plaque to remind u. but for the extra money they want for the car, they fail to deliver.

i can't speak for others, but i don't really care how fast it is on the Ring, because in my life time i know i'll never be able to achieve anything close to its limit. however, if i were to spend that money on a 911, i just want to make sure i get a truly special, stand out from the crowd 911.

btw, i'm not fancy about Ferrari build quality. in fact, i found handful of flaws in my 360CS & 430. i guess u can say handmade is not always a good thing, but some people are proud of it. i love Porsche, but when u compare the difference between regular 360 to Stradale, 430 to Scuderia, u know what's worth the extra money u paid right away. that's what Porsche fail to deliver.

Z356

Didn't we see this 'movie' already when the '08 gt2 came out (just after the 997.1 gt3 RS was introduced) and at an average MSRP of $210K or higher? The cars initially sold. But the reviews were almost universally negative. They have since tanked, now selling at incredible discounted prices, some nearly 50% of their original MSRP value. Not anywhere near the lesser overall depreciation of the .1 gt3 RS. The consensus of this forum back in 2008 was that the gt2 missed the mark (it was referred as the 'widow maker', remember?) and the naturally aspirated gt3RS was the horse to bet on for the true enthusiasts. Why will this gt2RS 'remake' have a different ending? Why expect it to have future 'mythical status' when the previous model was basically a flop? Is the RS version of the gt2 so revolutionary & improved that it will make us forget the recent sad tale of the '08 gt2 version? In my opinion, what would be ridiculous, to get back to the gist of the OP, is if '11 gt2RS buyers meet the same fate as owners of the '08 model! We have two words for that in French - 'déjà vu'. z356

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...t-bonhams.html

PogueMoHone

^
620HP..that's a widow maker; and all the appeal of the flame to a moth!

ADias

That's my perspective too. The Ferrari is an iconic car brand, nobody denies that, but let's not forget, their road cars only existed to finance their grand-prix efforts. Porsche quality is real, perhaps raw/teutonic interiors but the quality is real throughout, based on fundamental engineering expertise, both honed on the race track and in the real world. Has anybody seen Ferrari testing in the Arctic Circle or at Death Valley recently? Porsche was at DV a couple of weeks ago. The other thing is timelessness. If you get the meaning of a 911 you understand - if you are after the next 'salon' pretty thing you don't.

Re bling? Porsche does not lack great leathers and fine stitching, or whatever finish you choose. Is Ferrari leather any better? Softer calf skin? Perhaps some perceive it as better, but I prefer Porsche's more rugged hides - horses for courses.

Yeah, I believe 20 years hence this 2011 GT2RS will be a coveted car and the Italia will be a footnote.

The Credit Man

That is very funny, man!

EDIT: I just passed on the 2 RS because, if history has taught us anything, it's that history repeats itself; this car will tank on a linear scale. It will depreciate at least $40K within 6 months of its introduction in February, 2011. Furthermore, I can't see the 2 RS being worth $110K more than my GT3 RS, the latter which is the best car I've ever owned.

10 GT3

Keep also in mind a couple other things. First the GT2 RS is the most powerful and fastest road car Porsche has even produced. I think I can hear the Carrera GTs resale dropping. Second, the GT2 RS could be the last of the GT1/Mezger engine cars. Porsche has already said these engines will not get direct injection or PDKs. With the fuel economy crackdown that is getting ready to happen, survival of this engine is not likely; at least not for road cars. Does the price seem high? Well, you have to look at what it competes with. To be honest, the only car that might outperform it for less is the new McLaren. Does the $$/performance ratio make sense? Well that is up to the buyer. I suspect Porsche will have not problem selling all these cars.

Targa Tim

if a GT2RS is ever considered a bargain or reasonable buy, then every car guy should have a GT3RS in their garage. Its performance is cheap to get in comparison.

carbonfib3r

Thats partly true, I admit I do not have the skill to fully explore any of the car I own, ( CSL, 8C, Stradale, Scuderia), lets face it, we are no Walter Rohl, most likely we'll never be in another 50 years even if we had an ENZO as a daily driver to practice our driving skill. But I do enjoy owning these super cars as each of them all provide me with fabulous driving pleasure in their own way. I am extremely looking forward to driving the GT2 RS, it should offer a very different driving experience to my other cars even though it is on par with my Scuderia pricewise....

uzj100

OK. GT2 RS

zellamsee

Same --> GT 2RS

aussie jimmy

carbonfib3r : you don't need an enzo to drive everyday, you need to hone your skills on a ****box. a car with no driver aids and crap tyres, so you can get a real feel of what the chassis is doing. all these drivers like rohrl et al, learnt and cut their teeth on ****boxes; it can't be done the other way round.
the 2rs imo is a ridiculous car. over-styled, over-priced, and over-powered.
somebody before said that the '08 gt2 was no good - i disagree, i think it was a great car. the handling/ride was better than the 7.1 gt3. it is mor discreet, and now represents excellent value in the used arena. the 996 version was the widow maker. i have seen the 458, and, i must admit, it looks great, even though i don't like fazzas. the 360cs is still rockin', i think the 430 scud lives in it's shadow.