failure of rear caliper bolt
07-27-2010, 01:57 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
All,
I have the new pads in, but I have not torqued the new caliper bolts yet. An earlier post asked if the OP used loctite on the caliper bolts? Should I use, and if so, what color / type? Red requires heating to remove? Wouldn't the normal heat from the brakes run the risk of heating the loctite up to that temp?
As always, thanks.
Thanks,
Allen
I have the new pads in, but I have not torqued the new caliper bolts yet. An earlier post asked if the OP used loctite on the caliper bolts? Should I use, and if so, what color / type? Red requires heating to remove? Wouldn't the normal heat from the brakes run the risk of heating the loctite up to that temp?
As always, thanks.
Thanks,
Allen
07-27-2010, 03:45 PM
#33
Agreed. In those conditions, loctite would be only useful if the dealer service manager could show me the page in the service doc instructions calling for its use.
By the way, I had the dealer replace my pads with greens for the cost of the bolts and an hour of labor as a "good customer" charge. And this way, as I explained to them in lucid detail, if there's any problem with those rear wheel carriers or bolts or threads, there's no opportunity for Mr Porsche to explain how my driving indemnifies them from warranty.
While I'd never normally pay for someone to work on my brakes, in this special case, I think anyone with the budget to have a 997.x GT3 on the track should look at this as an insurance policy. Pathetic to need this kind of nonsense, but there it is.
By the way, I had the dealer replace my pads with greens for the cost of the bolts and an hour of labor as a "good customer" charge. And this way, as I explained to them in lucid detail, if there's any problem with those rear wheel carriers or bolts or threads, there's no opportunity for Mr Porsche to explain how my driving indemnifies them from warranty.
While I'd never normally pay for someone to work on my brakes, in this special case, I think anyone with the budget to have a 997.x GT3 on the track should look at this as an insurance policy. Pathetic to need this kind of nonsense, but there it is.
07-28-2010, 10:39 AM
#34
[QUOTE=Terry L;7741992]"Last week, I pulled off of the track at the end of two days at Summit Point, stopped at pit in, and found that the car wouldn't move. The top caliper bolt on the right rear caliper had pulled out - you can still see the aluminum from the threads in the upright contained in the threads of the bolt - and the caliper had tilted forward, bending the bottom caliper bolt, until it started to contact the wheel."
My turn - went to change rotors yesterday in prep for the Glen - the threads came out with 2 of the bolts. Spoke to Bill Dougherty, he said including Terry's they've had 3 cars in last month with this issue. My local shop, Speedsport, run by Spencer *** said happens "all the time" to track cars where calipers are frequently removed to change rotors or pads. Not necessarily related to over torquing or reusing bolts - the design just isn't up to frequent bolt removal. Seems all agree the solution is Timeserts M12x1.5 long (24mm). HPR (cheaper) or Wurth in Ramsey NJ stock the inserts and installation kits. Wurth is as close to me as Speedsport so I will probably go pick up a kit and long inserts and DIY, or at least have kit and inserts as back up if I have another bolt fail at track (hopefully during a rotor change not during use like Terry).
My turn - went to change rotors yesterday in prep for the Glen - the threads came out with 2 of the bolts. Spoke to Bill Dougherty, he said including Terry's they've had 3 cars in last month with this issue. My local shop, Speedsport, run by Spencer *** said happens "all the time" to track cars where calipers are frequently removed to change rotors or pads. Not necessarily related to over torquing or reusing bolts - the design just isn't up to frequent bolt removal. Seems all agree the solution is Timeserts M12x1.5 long (24mm). HPR (cheaper) or Wurth in Ramsey NJ stock the inserts and installation kits. Wurth is as close to me as Speedsport so I will probably go pick up a kit and long inserts and DIY, or at least have kit and inserts as back up if I have another bolt fail at track (hopefully during a rotor change not during use like Terry).
Last edited by obsessedone; 07-28-2010 at 07:18 PM.
07-28-2010, 07:16 PM
#36
07-28-2010, 08:07 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Is this failure inevitable then? I mean is this happening on most of the cars that see the track and have frequent pad changes? And if the failure is during warranty, surely it is covered...
07-28-2010, 09:13 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
If you track the car; Yes it will happen and no it's not warranty.
Time serts or studs are going to be in your future, you might as well get it done before you strip out an upright bad enough that it needs to be replaced.
Time serts or studs are going to be in your future, you might as well get it done before you strip out an upright bad enough that it needs to be replaced.
07-28-2010, 09:25 PM
#39
GT3 player par excellence
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Lifetime Rennlist
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07-28-2010, 10:13 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Can one of you guys give the sizes for the Time Serts and the sizes needed then? Oh and where to buy? And you recommend this as a preventitive measure?
Last edited by scott40; 07-28-2010 at 11:14 PM.
07-28-2010, 11:43 PM
#41
Former Vendor
Will be interesting how this develops over the next year or so.
Customers report trouble with this - not sure about this design nor am I sure of a good way to alleviate the troubles.
Customers report trouble with this - not sure about this design nor am I sure of a good way to alleviate the troubles.
07-29-2010, 12:11 AM
#42
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Agreed. In those conditions, loctite would be only useful if the dealer service manager could show me the page in the service doc instructions calling for its use.
By the way, I had the dealer replace my pads with greens for the cost of the bolts and an hour of labor as a "good customer" charge. And this way, as I explained to them in lucid detail, if there's any problem with those rear wheel carriers or bolts or threads, there's no opportunity for Mr Porsche to explain how my driving indemnifies them from warranty.
While I'd never normally pay for someone to work on my brakes, in this special case, I think anyone with the budget to have a 997.x GT3 on the track should look at this as an insurance policy. Pathetic to need this kind of nonsense, but there it is.
By the way, I had the dealer replace my pads with greens for the cost of the bolts and an hour of labor as a "good customer" charge. And this way, as I explained to them in lucid detail, if there's any problem with those rear wheel carriers or bolts or threads, there's no opportunity for Mr Porsche to explain how my driving indemnifies them from warranty.
While I'd never normally pay for someone to work on my brakes, in this special case, I think anyone with the budget to have a 997.x GT3 on the track should look at this as an insurance policy. Pathetic to need this kind of nonsense, but there it is.
07-29-2010, 07:49 AM
#43
As mentioned above "Seems all agree the solution is Timeserts M12x1.5 long (24mm). HPR (cheaper) or Wurth in Ramsey NJ stock the inserts and installation kits. Inserts are only $2 each - installation kit is $85 at Hoerr/HPR & $155 at Wurth so if planning ahead and have time for shipping use HPR/Hoerr Racing. Installation kit comes with 5 short inserts which are ok in an emergency but should get the longer inserts. Timesert site has good installation videos. One suggestion from local shop was drill out old threads with a wrench on drill bit not a power drill - takes a bit longer but easier to ensure you follow the hole straight - was still quick in the relatively soft aluminum. Even if you follow this suggestion, use power drill for drilling the recess in step 2 - that is not quick without power drill. Shop also suggests thin coat of blue Loctite on outside threads of insert - probably not necessary but did it.
07-29-2010, 08:03 AM
#44
Pinecone Watchman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Given the safety aspect of this issue, I'm a bit surprised that Porsche isn't stepping up to the plate with at least a recommended fix.
07-29-2010, 09:27 AM
#45
Nordschleife Master
As mentioned above "Seems all agree the solution is Timeserts M12x1.5 long (24mm). HPR (cheaper) or Wurth in Ramsey NJ stock the inserts and installation kits. Inserts are only $2 each - installation kit is $85 at Hoerr/HPR & $155 at Wurth so if planning ahead and have time for shipping use HPR/Hoerr Racing. Installation kit comes with 5 short inserts which are ok in an emergency but should get the longer inserts. Timesert site has good installation videos. One suggestion from local shop was drill out old threads with a wrench on drill bit not a power drill - takes a bit longer but easier to ensure you follow the hole straight - was still quick in the relatively soft aluminum. Even if you follow this suggestion, use power drill for drilling the recess in step 2 - that is not quick without power drill. Shop also suggests thin coat of blue Loctite on outside threads of insert - probably not necessary but did it.