leif997

I would love to see this....any leads out there???

superquant

No, because it doesn't exist. I call BS on that claimed time.

ArcticGT3

I can't wait to see it. And we will see it. Porsche does not BS with that.

What I think is really interesting is that Porsche is only promising sub 7:30 for the 918. Given the 7:18 for the GT2 RS, the 918 should for sure be faster. By how much?

C.J. Ichiban

the ring times are a lot about traction and comfort versus straight-line speed...the comments on the CGT were always that it could go faster but didn't have the tires for the job, and as an owner / someone who's driven it on track...the limits of a modern 911 are much more approachable. CGT's tires are pretty weak.

the 918 will have more HP but also more weight than the CGT, and the similar layout of suspension parts (rather than a 911 style)

Yargk

I don't think there is any bs there. This thing is the real deal.

ArcticGT3

C.J.,

I was telling a friend last week that he could avoid divorce by explaining to his wife that he could order a CGT for half the price, meaning a GT2 RS. Of course, the experience is completely different, etc... But the point is that I wonder how Porsche would justify selling something for half a million dollars if it is not their fastest car. I don't think that owning the latest technology would be enough of a factor for most potential buyers. So I'm assuming that Porsche is under-promising for the moment. By the time the car enters production, it will be lighter. It will benefit from better tires (Cups like on current GT cars), from better traction (front wheels) compared to the CGT, maybe more power than annouced (the CGT received an extra 60hp or so when it went into production).

That's all speculation. Let's see what happens!

C.J. Ichiban

half a million dollars? for what? the gt2RS is 250k and the CGT used these days is probably in the 280-335 range itself. I think the GT2RS is a hell of a car, but by the time it comes out I'll already have my CGT and my GT3RS mk2 sitting in my garage.

the 918 could be 600k for all we know. there is a law of diminishing returns in play here...

I concur that the GT2RS is a super performer, but honestly for about half the price, the GT3RS has more curb appeal for me. If I'm going back over the 200k mark in purchase price, I'm getting the mclaren, a 430 scud, something that is a space ship on 4 wheels. That's why I like the 918. it looks like something out of a Halo video game...but if the price point is 2x what a CGT is...

ArcticGT3

Sorry I was confusing. I was referring to Porsche asking around half a million for the 918. That price alone would make buyers expect even better performance than that of the GT2 RS, would it not?

C.J. Ichiban

gotcha. well to the new bosses aka wee-dub, the super high MPG of the hybrid system is the performance envelope.

Carrera GT

The McLaren is $191K. I see it as the only plausible rival to the GT3 RS, GT2 and GT2 RS.

The Scuderia is obsolete (and by all accounts wildly expensive to get it set up to handle on the track.) Products from Lamborghini and Mercedes don't enter into the competition and the 458 Italia is wildly designed and equally overpriced.

The Carrera GT has high end operating costs even if the purchase price is within reach of a few rare track enthusiasts, an honest accounting of the real operating costs puts the Carrera GT out of reach.

The 918 pricing has already been put "above" the Carrera GT, so buyers shouldn't be waiting for change out of a check for US$500K.

As a status symbol for the uninformed, the likes of the Scuderia make for a marvelous trophy car. I can only hope that Porsche doesn't build the 918 as a trophy.

I'd like to think Porsche has learned from the Carrera GT to improve operating costs. This might be obscure -- so for example: clutch maintenance is surely a much better proposition in the PDK of the 918; new electrics and traction motors should withstand the rigors of the track; routine service shouldn't involve hours of hoist time let alone an engine-out procedure; simple maintenance and adjustment should be cost effective (brake wear items, alignment) and necessary upgrades (roll-over protection, shell seats, six point harnesses, fuel cell, fire system) should be anticipated and the car should be prepared for those upgrades -- nothing should be an afterthought.

It seems to me -- though it is heresy to even think these thoughts -- the GT2 RS is going to exceed the raw performance of the Carrera GT and it will deliver that level of performance with the advantage of the new SC and TC safeties (which have become no impediment to lap times.)

As much as one admires the Carrera GT, it's exotic appearance and construction make it an impractical proposition both as a street car simply because of its ostentatious presence and as a track car because of the disproportionate operating costs.

The GT2 RS arrives an unrivaled track car in a road-going street car that can be readily upgraded and equipped as I described above. And it retains the street car reality of Porsche heritage -- being a car that can be driven to the race, win that race convincingly and stop by to pick up some Champagne from the local shops on the way home.

I see the GT2 RS as a rare break from the party line and pecking order and it will, like the GT3 RS cars over the last decade, will be a "reward car" to 911 customers, not trophies.

TRAKCAR

7:18 is only real with a video, what are they waiting for??

C.J. Ichiban

Carrera GT- you're a disgrace to your namesake! Kidding.

I agree that the GT2RS will be the fastest car out of stuttgart. It has to be- the CGT is over a decade old in design...and like you say it has NONE of the electronic or ergonomic benefits learned from the 997, or even the 4 door porsches (which are REALLY ergonomic and have cool technology)

that being said- you understand as we all do that a 600hp v10 carbon fiber monocoque vehicle like the CGT is in fact a supercar, and not a daily driver. that being said, I've put almost 4k miles on mine in the past year...including a few days on the track. It's just as practical for highway and "driving enjoyment" use and I do in fact go to the grocery store and run errands in mine from time to time. It's got more ground clearance than my ex-997GT3RS with cup lip.

Of course I've also put 10k miles on my truck, 6.5k miles on my GTi, and even more miles on my 993TT. If someone is counting on a CGT or GT2RS being their only car- that's kind of absurd.

Logic should only be applied loosely when talking about any car over 100k. After that, we're all too crazy to really have any credibility. Cars in the 918, Scud, McLaren, GT3RS, GT2, CGT, Lambo, 599 type price brackets are all a matter of taste. Some people look at a bentley or a rolls royce as the ultimate, while I look at those like they're big fat piggies. If it's about saving money and easily going fast- the GT-R is enough and used are in the 70k range.

Last point- all well and good that the RS models are "track cars" but they aren't race cars, no matter how we frame them. race cars only have one seat, and the only radios they have are for your helmet and the pit lane.

ArcticGT3

So the questions are:
- Can the 918 be a Reward car, instead of a trophy car, even if it is slower around the Ring compared to the GT2 RS?
- Will potential Enthusiast buyers still buy it? The very limited numbers of CGTs I see at the track (and I'm not including the one that does 3-minute laps around Sebring) would indicate that they were mostly bought as trophies. However, at the time they were reward cars because no other Street Porsche was faster.

C.J. Ichiban

3 mins in a CGT around sebring? haha I could go faster than that on my vespa

Carrera GT

I know. I'm ashamed to even put GT2 and Carrera GT in the same sentence. This will not go well for me when my order goes in for anything more than a Trebant after this ...

Right. There are just a handful of Carrera GT owner-drivers on the planet that can report the same day to day driving. And few places on the planet where you can "get away with" parking a Carrera GT at the local shops and pick up some gardening stuff or the daily groceries. Still, I'm sure you take it to the track with a far higher degree of respect for your limits, not the limits of the car and you're mindful of a car that basically can't be repaired (there's no monocoques left for customers, just a handful for factory needs) and certainly can't be replaced regardless of any degree of cooperation from the insurer.
Nobody's suggesting the Carrera GT or GT2 RS will be left alone and afraid in the cold and dark of a one-car garage. And I don't seriously expect too many people to think of any RS as a daily driver, but the character of the car would allow someone to treat it as an everyday car. Even simple things like the clutch and the absence of a cruise control would be annoying if someone really wanted to have the Carrera GT as a "runabout" car.
Well, a race car is whatever people race in, and rally cars tend to have two seats. But if you put a cage in an RS and want to have fun on the weekends reliving the age of "drive it to the track" (as was done with the 24hr last week ...) then the RS (2 or 3) is the weapon of choice and can be counted on to perform at the front of the field in any event from an autocross to a sprint or an enduro or a Targa -- I consider all of these to be races.