Carrera GT

Well, I wouldn't get too bogged down in semantics. I think of "reward" being an affordable (in context) car that is in limited supply and made available by ethical dealers to their best customers (for those customers choosing or wanting the RS as a reward for the business they bring to the dealer over the years.) Even though the RS is also the object of avarice in the eyes of unscrupulous dealers wanting immediate profits and willing to gouge and be damned, it's still a "reward" to those lucky enough to have an honest dealer.

I think of "trophy" as the cars made in any quantity that people choose to order (the Carrera GT started out as a limited production vehicle and became a "build as many as we get orders" car ... making it a trophy ... and consequently still 30% depreciated below new purchase cost from five years ago.) I don't mean to "bash" the Carrera GT, just to point out the inevitable depreciation of the status symbol cars. The 918 will be build in whatever quantity orders arrive -- even if it's only 1000 cars as they hope for as a minimum, it's still a level of matching supply with demand and that means prices reflect the market. Also, the 918 is a precursor to a new era of Porsches using technology and hybridization ... this is not the stuff of legends, it's the technology and gadgets and gizmos that will soon be commonplace on Camrys. Again, I'm not trying to detract from the 918 in its own right, but I think the market has already spoken (as recent prices on the Carrera GT have strengthened, sellers have gone and buyers are present.) The Carrera GT lives on, five years later and ten years old in its original design, as a high point in the history of the marque and a permanent icon of Porsche. The 918 is not destined to fill those shoes.

ArcticGT3

Semantics are important: I was completely off! I was thinking trophy = great to look at, rare and expensive, but that may not perform that well. Reward = reward for the driver due to great performance regardless of price, rarity, etc...
Anyway, the CGT will be very hard to replace indeed. Will I get goose bumps when the engine of the 918 starts?

Yargk

Exactly.

I'm more in awe of the CGT, but as a practical tool the GT2RS has it beat hands down. A GT2 just won one lap of America, we won't be seeing a CGT doing that. The development needed is just too expensive considering the platform and lack of already built "race" versions.

MJSpeed

Guys comparing the GT2 RS to the CGT is like comparing a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale or F430 Scuderia to a FOOKING F40. Sure they're faster than the F40 but seriously.

MJSpeed

The GT2RS is a GT2 on steriods...and at the end it's "only" a 911 (997). Don't get me wrong, it's the fastest most insane version of the 997 family from the factory, nevertheless it's still "just" a 997.

That's like Ferrari, they're going to charge $500K+ for a 599GTO, which I find insane.

They're all great cars but just a few a supercars.

superquant

+1000

For all the gaffawing about this car, it is at the end of the day, just another 911 with a turbo motor. And asking 245k for it makes it a recipe for absolute financial disaster for the first owners.

cgomez

Sure for those that still think buying supercars is investing in assets. Not a bad recipe for those that drive the ***** out them, enjoy the process, and know that supercar ownership is actually an expense.

Most of what you would be able to buy in that performance league has bigger depreciation through 2-3 years and 30,000mi, and leagues away from being as reliable.

savyboy

Well stated, thank you for saving me the keystrokes.

I could give a rat's azz about the next buyer of my RS or Spyder. Experiencing what the cars have to offer driving to, on, and home from the track is priceless enjoyment.

A GT2RS will be the ultimate track weapon for the ultra-enthusiast.

If selling a car will make or break you, then you probably should avoid the opening transaction

superquant

I will refrase - my point was not about the depreciation so much as about 'value', both tangible and intangible. Yes, everyone buying these cars realizes they are expenses. However, at 250k I am buying McLaren, Ferrari, pre-owned Pagani if I am in europe, not yet another 911 variant with a bigger turbo and a few carbon bits.

On your second, point, looking at the 997.1 GT2 and 996 GT2 before that, I can't see any other vehicle in that class that has lost so much value (on a percentage basis) after so little time, with or without mileage, so not sure what your reference is. Every indication is that this latest (even more overpriced) GT2 variant will suffer the same fate. I think the inflection point for 911 variants is about 150k - beyond that I think Porsche needs to come up with true supercars like the CGT if they want to compete in the exotics arena and have owners feeling like they are getting value.

The proof will be in the pudding, I am betting these cars will be sitting on dealer lots 3 months after release.

Carrera GT

For a self-named "superquant" you seem to have a poor grasp of numbers. The 30% first year depreciation for the GT2 RS buyer will be little more than a rounding error on their tax return. The second-tier types like me that will try to borrow a ladder to get a GT2 RS will be doing so in the secondary market, after the first cliff-dive down the depreciation curve.

superquant

read my followup. my grasp of numbers only extends to 5 digits.

Carrera GT

I guess you were posting just as I was reading/posting. But still, I don't see how you arrive at your conclusions. They're making so few of the GT2, let alone the GT2 RS, it will be for the best customers of the anointed dealers and for the cash-rich clueless that pay for first kid on the block status. While "a quarter of a million dollars" will never lose its meaning to me, I have to recognize that today, it's hardly the most expensive car on offer and so far below its spec in the brand echelons that it's a veritable bargain at US$245K for the GT2 RS -- probably twice that in Australia f'rinstance, so the comparison is not global."

I'm guessing (with sincere respect) that English is a second language, based on the phonetic spelling of rephrase -- even if it's only that pure math is your native tongue -- so I'm trying to be courteous and not argue over one word or another.

On a percentage basis, the Porsche that loses the most value is the Turbo, Turbo S and Cabrio with the requisite options list stretching onto a second page of the window sticker ... all of which are small potatoes compared to anyone that's ever bought a Cayenne, let alone a Cayenne loaded with factory options (my four year old $135K Cayenne just traded for $35K with basically no miles ... that's expensive motoring and that's big percentages that make a GT2 look like an heirloom.) Then again, even the Cayenne pales into insignificance compared to a loaded Range Rover of the Overfinch or Holland and Holland brand exercises. What a waste.

Anyhoot, as I mentioned in one of these threads -- anyone buying the GT2 with concern for resale value bought the right car for the wrong reason. And I don't think you're really arguing that the GT2 is anything less than the apex of the brand in the Porsche new models line-up, it's just still a bit of an adjustment to contemplate any number that can be expressed in terms of millions of dollars when all you're getting is a really powerful 911 that's practically indistinguishable from the base model car at one fifth the price of entry ... even though this example is arguable five times the performance ... : )

superquant

Werd.

The spelling error is actually a planned trinket that I like to insert randomly so that other forum members don't confuse my posts with those of a Turing machine.

My understanding is that there isn't a clear production cap on the GT2RS.

leif997

Super Q: release report stated only 500 units world wide.

CGT: can I just say that I love to read your posts? Clear substantiation of one's position is in critical shortage these days; esp on internet forums.

Carrera GT

I guess Werd is a pun? I'm still guessing you're a Commodore 64 somewhere in Eastern Europe.