how to take a fast corner in a gt3
01-19-2010, 12:24 PM
#16
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That's a big step up from 135 to GT3 - congrats.
Be patient and go back to basics - slow in fast out, etc. Dave's suggestion of a gear higher is a great idea, especially given the power differential you jumped from a 135 to a GT3. On alignment, I'd say have it checked at least but I don't think you need to go aggressive from the start. These cars have been known to not be right from the factory and if someone had it before you then they may have monkeyed around with it (and the sway bars for that matter). I wouldn't worry about trying to dial out the push with bar adjustments or alignment until you learn how to drive the car. Learn the technique and then start turning the *****.
Lastly and most important - get an instructor to help you out a few sessions. You will be amazed when you see what the car can actually do when you learn to manage the weight balance, etc. You seem like you have some good track experience so I'm sure you appreciate that you won't learn to drive a car based on Internet advice.
Be patient and go back to basics - slow in fast out, etc. Dave's suggestion of a gear higher is a great idea, especially given the power differential you jumped from a 135 to a GT3. On alignment, I'd say have it checked at least but I don't think you need to go aggressive from the start. These cars have been known to not be right from the factory and if someone had it before you then they may have monkeyed around with it (and the sway bars for that matter). I wouldn't worry about trying to dial out the push with bar adjustments or alignment until you learn how to drive the car. Learn the technique and then start turning the *****.
Lastly and most important - get an instructor to help you out a few sessions. You will be amazed when you see what the car can actually do when you learn to manage the weight balance, etc. You seem like you have some good track experience so I'm sure you appreciate that you won't learn to drive a car based on Internet advice.
01-19-2010, 12:27 PM
#17
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Seat time & instruction!
•The proper line is the line, regardless of the car
•The throttle is a rheostat, not a ON/OFF switch.
•Trail braking is an acceptable technique. It's use depends upon the corner, but can be as supple as lighting up the brake lights to put a bit of weight on the front.
•The brake pedal is the hardest pedal to master!
The GT3 out of the box, is a better car than most drivers can pilot.
Mods such as alignment, while not bad, can serve to mask bad driving technique.
My 2¢
•The proper line is the line, regardless of the car
•The throttle is a rheostat, not a ON/OFF switch.
•Trail braking is an acceptable technique. It's use depends upon the corner, but can be as supple as lighting up the brake lights to put a bit of weight on the front.
•The brake pedal is the hardest pedal to master!
The GT3 out of the box, is a better car than most drivers can pilot.
Mods such as alignment, while not bad, can serve to mask bad driving technique.
My 2¢
01-19-2010, 12:47 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Seat time & instruction!
•The proper line is the line, regardless of the car
•The throttle is a rheostat, not a ON/OFF switch.
•Trail braking is an acceptable technique. It's use depends upon the corner, but can be as supple as lighting up the brake lights to put a bit of weight on the front.
•The brake pedal is the hardest pedal to master!
The GT3 out of the box, is a better car than most drivers can pilot.
Mods such as alignment, while not bad, can serve to mask bad driving technique.
My 2¢
•The proper line is the line, regardless of the car
•The throttle is a rheostat, not a ON/OFF switch.
•Trail braking is an acceptable technique. It's use depends upon the corner, but can be as supple as lighting up the brake lights to put a bit of weight on the front.
•The brake pedal is the hardest pedal to master!
The GT3 out of the box, is a better car than most drivers can pilot.
Mods such as alignment, while not bad, can serve to mask bad driving technique.
My 2¢
Yup.
And I concur with Bob & others: get some proper GT3-focused instruction and/or private coaching.
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01-19-2010, 01:48 PM
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...and VR's comment about driving a gear higher is especially true on a wet track. It's easy to spin the rear tires at 60mph in 2nd gear in the wet. You don't want to do this anywhere near a wall!
Cheers,
01-19-2010, 02:18 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
01-19-2010, 02:21 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Seat time & instruction!
•The proper line is the line, regardless of the car
•The throttle is a rheostat, not a ON/OFF switch.
•Trail braking is an acceptable technique. It's use depends upon the corner, but can be as supple as lighting up the brake lights to put a bit of weight on the front.
•The brake pedal is the hardest pedal to master!
The GT3 out of the box, is a better car than most drivers can pilot.
Mods such as alignment, while not bad, can serve to mask bad driving technique.
My 2¢
•The proper line is the line, regardless of the car
•The throttle is a rheostat, not a ON/OFF switch.
•Trail braking is an acceptable technique. It's use depends upon the corner, but can be as supple as lighting up the brake lights to put a bit of weight on the front.
•The brake pedal is the hardest pedal to master!
The GT3 out of the box, is a better car than most drivers can pilot.
Mods such as alignment, while not bad, can serve to mask bad driving technique.
My 2¢
Exactly. I am convinced that most drivers use the throttle and brake as an on/off switch. They are essentially drag strip drivers, and even there launches must be iffy.
01-19-2010, 03:16 PM
#23
Let's assume you compare GT3 to a car which has incredibly bad traction, and a car which has near infinite traction. The one which has horrible tracking will likely have to take wider archs around corners, otherwise it would slip. The car with near infinite traction could just race around the inside line of the track on the curb. Right?
So, now compare cars that have different traction limits are front and rear (which is where this gets complicated). Conceivably, a car with perfect traction in the back and poor traction in front would steer different than one in which the settings were reversed. Right?
What am I missing?
01-19-2010, 04:02 PM
#24
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So, now compare cars that have different traction limits are front and rear (which is where this gets complicated). Conceivably, a car with perfect traction in the back and poor traction in front would steer different than one in which the settings were reversed. Right?
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
The Line Is The Line no-matter the car.
It's about managing the contact patches.
I love the following video...at Barber Motorsports Park, running the proper line for the most part...in a car ill prepared for track use...the driver is good
01-19-2010, 04:23 PM
#26
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Not an easy answer! Each track is different, but
The Line Is The Line no-matter the car.
It's about managing the contact patches.
I love the following video...at Barber Motorsports Park, running the proper line for the most part...in a car ill prepared for track use...the driver is good:thumbu
The Line Is The Line no-matter the car.
It's about managing the contact patches.
I love the following video...at Barber Motorsports Park, running the proper line for the most part...in a car ill prepared for track use...the driver is good:thumbu
This is exactly right--it's all about contact patch management! There is a fast line, and all the others. Again, with the exception of some very front heavy FWD cars, it doesn't matter what you drive. Now, your brake points, turn in points, techniques, and timing may all be different in a 7GT3 versus a 135i....but the LINE is the same, IMO.
I was at Barber instructing when that was filmed. Awesome stuiff. They went through at least one set of brake pads & had to flip the tires on th erims before returning the car to Hertz! But it is amazing what you can do in a car like that. I do a lot of tactical driving instruction for Special Forces, US federal agents, and goverernment & private executive protection groups. it blows these folks away what you can do with a Crown Vic, or an armored Benz, or better yet an armored 3/4 ton Suburban, if you understand weight transfer and contact patch management.
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01-19-2010, 05:54 PM
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if track is very smooth, i run stiff mode. otherwise soft.
you can trail brake, but if you come from bmw world, i wouldn't trail brake a 911 until you have more experience.
get all braking done in straight line, slow the way hell down, i mean SLOW VERY SLOW. feed throttle, turn, more throttle and full throttle before most apex. but to do this, remember you are very very SLOW entering the turn. if your car pushes, you are entering too fast. if the push is slight, breath on throttle to tuck in.
of course, this is just to get you accustom to the behavior of 911's. once you get a feel of it, you can trail brake and do as you wish, you can also lift, but only a quick lift then back on it.
long fast corner, keep feeding throttle, if you have to back out of throttle, imo, you entered too fast. the only time to back off throttle on a fast long turn is to tuck in the nose and you are merely breathing on the throttle not really backing off.
you can trail brake, but if you come from bmw world, i wouldn't trail brake a 911 until you have more experience.
get all braking done in straight line, slow the way hell down, i mean SLOW VERY SLOW. feed throttle, turn, more throttle and full throttle before most apex. but to do this, remember you are very very SLOW entering the turn. if your car pushes, you are entering too fast. if the push is slight, breath on throttle to tuck in.
of course, this is just to get you accustom to the behavior of 911's. once you get a feel of it, you can trail brake and do as you wish, you can also lift, but only a quick lift then back on it.
long fast corner, keep feeding throttle, if you have to back out of throttle, imo, you entered too fast. the only time to back off throttle on a fast long turn is to tuck in the nose and you are merely breathing on the throttle not really backing off.
How many days have you tracks a car with instructor? How many days with the GT3?
I think I understand what you mean.
I also have a Mustang, you throw it in the corner sideways. A GT3 needs early braking and power through the corner. If you are too fast into the corner you can lift and brake, these cars are easy to drive, not like old 911's.
But faster in a 135?? I mean there is no comparising..Shocks are always stiff, except for Sebring maybe.
I think I understand what you mean.
I also have a Mustang, you throw it in the corner sideways. A GT3 needs early braking and power through the corner. If you are too fast into the corner you can lift and brake, these cars are easy to drive, not like old 911's.
But faster in a 135?? I mean there is no comparising..Shocks are always stiff, except for Sebring maybe.
.Thanks for the advice m8.Oh absolutely,once you take a corner fast in this car you have to be committed all the way to the end.
Per the points above, you are driving a completely different car from a 135i. If you want to go fast in a 911, you should not be driving it in the way you described with the 135i. You will need to learn how to use the weight distribution in the GT3 as an advantage. This is a very stable car that is far easier to drive than a 70's or 80's 911, but it is still a 911 with all the weight out back.
The way you take a corner in a 911 is brake in a straight line before entering the corner and get your right foot on the throttle before turning into the corner. Use light changes on the throttle to keep the rear end stable and use weight transfer to control understeer/oversteer. The front end will bite and turn in. At or before Apex, start rolling in throttle. Most corners you can be at full throttle before corner exit. There is not another car out there that can come off a corner as fast as these cars, but a lot of cars that can enter faster. You do not want to drive it just trying to push through a corner like a front engine understeering car.
Keep also in mind that there is a tremendous amount of tuning that can be done with the stock GT3 suspension. You have 3 different adjustments for camber up front: upper strut slots, rotating the upper hat and adding shims to the lower control arms. These cars have adjustable coilovers from the factory, so you can weight balance each corner. Both the front and rear anti-roll bars are adjustable to change the balance. If the car is too loose, try stiffening the front bar and softening the rear bar. There is a lot you can do to dial in the handling characteristics of your car. By physics alone, you won't ever make the GT3 drive like your previous BMW.
For your line, just start with the traditional "Blue" line for your track. If you go to a PCA DE, ask for an instructor that drives a GT3 or at least a 996 or 997. They will be able to help work with you to learn how to drive the car properly.
The way you take a corner in a 911 is brake in a straight line before entering the corner and get your right foot on the throttle before turning into the corner. Use light changes on the throttle to keep the rear end stable and use weight transfer to control understeer/oversteer. The front end will bite and turn in. At or before Apex, start rolling in throttle. Most corners you can be at full throttle before corner exit. There is not another car out there that can come off a corner as fast as these cars, but a lot of cars that can enter faster. You do not want to drive it just trying to push through a corner like a front engine understeering car.
Keep also in mind that there is a tremendous amount of tuning that can be done with the stock GT3 suspension. You have 3 different adjustments for camber up front: upper strut slots, rotating the upper hat and adding shims to the lower control arms. These cars have adjustable coilovers from the factory, so you can weight balance each corner. Both the front and rear anti-roll bars are adjustable to change the balance. If the car is too loose, try stiffening the front bar and softening the rear bar. There is a lot you can do to dial in the handling characteristics of your car. By physics alone, you won't ever make the GT3 drive like your previous BMW.
For your line, just start with the traditional "Blue" line for your track. If you go to a PCA DE, ask for an instructor that drives a GT3 or at least a 996 or 997. They will be able to help work with you to learn how to drive the car properly.
Consider a 3-day open wheel racing school like Skip Barber or similar. Cars used have similar driving characteristics and power to weight ratios as 911s. Heavy rear weight bias; prone to snap oversteer if you overcook turn entry and panic; prone to understeer on turn exit if you get on the throttle too soon without proper rotation.
Plus, it's a ton of fun and gets you a lot of track time with a nice steep learning curve.
Plus, it's a ton of fun and gets you a lot of track time with a nice steep learning curve.
. I guess im more worried about breaking something, also rite now i dont want to worry about pads,tyres,oil,rattles etc.I think it's hilarious to see folks claim there are different "lines" for different cars, and that you'd drive a 7GT3 differently than a 135i, and that you can't/shouldn't trail brake a 7GT3. All are IMO untrue.
In my experience, the only cars that you might change lines for is a heavy front drive car. Yeah, the GT3 and the 135 have their greatest mass at different ends.....but you still drive them the same way: using throttle to get weight off the front & reduce inherent understeer. Yeah, the limits of each car are vastloy different, but that's about it.
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In my experience, the only cars that you might change lines for is a heavy front drive car. Yeah, the GT3 and the 135 have their greatest mass at different ends.....but you still drive them the same way: using throttle to get weight off the front & reduce inherent understeer. Yeah, the limits of each car are vastloy different, but that's about it.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
I'd be more than happy to take you for a ride in your GT3.
I agree with all that's been said before. What has not been mentioned yet is that you need to remove the michelin pilot sport cups or pirellis from the car. Those tires are designed in such a way that your car will inherently understeer.
#2 - you have to get an aggressive track alignment with at least 2.5 degrees of negative camber in front. As you get advanced you'll want -3.0 degrees.
#3 - definitely adjust your sway bars.
#4 - It ain't no BMW in terms of balance. Get used to it.
I agree with all that's been said before. What has not been mentioned yet is that you need to remove the michelin pilot sport cups or pirellis from the car. Those tires are designed in such a way that your car will inherently understeer.
#2 - you have to get an aggressive track alignment with at least 2.5 degrees of negative camber in front. As you get advanced you'll want -3.0 degrees.
#3 - definitely adjust your sway bars.
#4 - It ain't no BMW in terms of balance. Get used to it.
so if my tyre pressure is say 31psi cold, at 34psi are they warm enough to overcome understeer?
Outside temp was between 15-20deg cel before, today i drove in 25deg cel temp and the car felt more planted.Is it just me or there really is a significant difference based on tyre temps?
im worried to much negative chamber will destroy my tyres on the street in just a few miles?i dont track my car ,is it still advisavble to get -2.5 for street use. Whats the best compromise between street and track alignment?
Before i bought this car i read millions of reviews 997gt3s(almost every review available) so i knew what to expect.what i didnt expect was how soft this car felt(suspension wise) as apposed to all those reviews(comparatively gt-r was stiffer and ride was much harsher going over small bumps and undulations on the road).
i was hoping for a more direct steering i.e if you do a zigzag motion(like doing a slolam) at say about 100km/h you feel a slight delay,very minor though and gets little better with the suspension on stiff. my question is,does this change with a stiffer swaybar setting?
thanks for your advice m8.
Respectfully disagree with some of this for a new owner:
#1: new owners should learn the car with OEM rubbber...which ain't bad
#2: new owners should learn the car with OEM alignment
#3: new owners should learn the car with OEM sway bar settings
#4: very true
If one learns the car as-is, you will become a much better driver...and then making the changes suggested by portas & others will have much more value. In addition, learn to drive the car in track one gear higher than you'd like. IOW, if you think you should take a particular corner in 2nd & wind out the RPMs, do it in 3rd instead. Why? Because it will teach you MUCH more about the car's balance, will teach you to brake much less, and will significantly reduce the chances of looping the car on power, which is where new owners often get bitten.
JMHO....what the heck do I know?....YMMV...
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
#1: new owners should learn the car with OEM rubbber...which ain't bad
#2: new owners should learn the car with OEM alignment
#3: new owners should learn the car with OEM sway bar settings
#4: very true
If one learns the car as-is, you will become a much better driver...and then making the changes suggested by portas & others will have much more value. In addition, learn to drive the car in track one gear higher than you'd like. IOW, if you think you should take a particular corner in 2nd & wind out the RPMs, do it in 3rd instead. Why? Because it will teach you MUCH more about the car's balance, will teach you to brake much less, and will significantly reduce the chances of looping the car on power, which is where new owners often get bitten.
JMHO....what the heck do I know?....YMMV...
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
i said in my first post:
I am no expert and I never drove another 911 besides mine, so I have no idea what people are talking about. Coming out of a Mustang I tend still to go in too fast with too much trail braking to be fast out. I'm unscrewing myself slowly.
If the car pushes, I lift a little / stab the throttle to tuck it in depending on the speed and the corner. I have even gone into slower corners much to fast where I brake medium/hard in the middle of the corner, you have to be ready to catch it, but the car is just so forgiving..
The GT3 has so much rear grip and rear bias brakes that on fast 100MPH+ corners, if I really screw up and the car really steps out, you can always catch it. I've had the car fish tail a bit and by just letting my foot rest on the brake the big rear tires and the big rear brake bias straighten the car out, it's like the car has ESP...
This is not beginner stuff and initially you don't want to go near anything I am describing above.
My point is that the handeling is much easier and safer than the old 911's.
The real danger of the GT3 in the hands of a beginner is the very high speed in combination with a lot of forgiveness initially that can get a beginner in real big trouble when it does all go wrong. Even when you get comfortable, keep an instructor inthe car for a few extra events to fine tune the stuff I talk about above.
I am no expert and I never drove another 911 besides mine, so I have no idea what people are talking about. Coming out of a Mustang I tend still to go in too fast with too much trail braking to be fast out. I'm unscrewing myself slowly.
If the car pushes, I lift a little / stab the throttle to tuck it in depending on the speed and the corner. I have even gone into slower corners much to fast where I brake medium/hard in the middle of the corner, you have to be ready to catch it, but the car is just so forgiving..
The GT3 has so much rear grip and rear bias brakes that on fast 100MPH+ corners, if I really screw up and the car really steps out, you can always catch it. I've had the car fish tail a bit and by just letting my foot rest on the brake the big rear tires and the big rear brake bias straighten the car out, it's like the car has ESP...
This is not beginner stuff and initially you don't want to go near anything I am describing above.
My point is that the handeling is much easier and safer than the old 911's.
The real danger of the GT3 in the hands of a beginner is the very high speed in combination with a lot of forgiveness initially that can get a beginner in real big trouble when it does all go wrong. Even when you get comfortable, keep an instructor inthe car for a few extra events to fine tune the stuff I talk about above.
My thoughts (sounds like you have tracked a car before so these comments are made assuming this is true)
1) Get a pro (porsche 911 driver) to take you out and show you what is possible with your current setup and ask for his feedback on the car
2) if the car is pushing, pushing pushing, you have a few possible issues:
- you are not getting the car turned enough before getting on throttle (nose lifts = push)
- you are letting your front tires get too hot (sliding, sliding, sliding)
- your bmw doesn't have the rear grip of a gt3 and is not rotating as much (based on what you usually expecting)
- for 2nd gear corners and slower 3rd gear corners, use trail braking to help rotate the rear and add grip to the front with weight transfer
- as stated above, get the front camber of the car to -2.5 with zero toe (this will help a lot)
- run a 245/255 tire at the front of the car (Hoosier 235/35/19 is like a 255 so that works as well) - helps with braking and better front grip
Summary
- front camber + more front rubber fixes most of the problem (the factory gave you the ability to adjust this for a reason - use it -2.5front with 0 toe and -2.2rear with 2mm toe in per side is a great starting track / streetable alignment)
- to be really fast in these cars (you need lots of seat time which is obvious) but so far my own research has made me a believer that you want to set up the car with as much rear grip as possible / soft so you can be as aggressive as possible / early on throttle AND trail brake aggressively / keep the rear end behind you on entry for late braking - I have see it done by a pro in my car and changed my setup accordingly (at his recommendation) becasue once you see what is possible with this car it is almost frightening
paul
1) Get a pro (porsche 911 driver) to take you out and show you what is possible with your current setup and ask for his feedback on the car
2) if the car is pushing, pushing pushing, you have a few possible issues:
- you are not getting the car turned enough before getting on throttle (nose lifts = push)
- you are letting your front tires get too hot (sliding, sliding, sliding)
- your bmw doesn't have the rear grip of a gt3 and is not rotating as much (based on what you usually expecting)
- for 2nd gear corners and slower 3rd gear corners, use trail braking to help rotate the rear and add grip to the front with weight transfer
- as stated above, get the front camber of the car to -2.5 with zero toe (this will help a lot)
- run a 245/255 tire at the front of the car (Hoosier 235/35/19 is like a 255 so that works as well) - helps with braking and better front grip
Summary
- front camber + more front rubber fixes most of the problem (the factory gave you the ability to adjust this for a reason - use it -2.5front with 0 toe and -2.2rear with 2mm toe in per side is a great starting track / streetable alignment)
- to be really fast in these cars (you need lots of seat time which is obvious) but so far my own research has made me a believer that you want to set up the car with as much rear grip as possible / soft so you can be as aggressive as possible / early on throttle AND trail brake aggressively / keep the rear end behind you on entry for late braking - I have see it done by a pro in my car and changed my setup accordingly (at his recommendation) becasue once you see what is possible with this car it is almost frightening
paul
On the 135i the front end loses tracktion long before the rears do,you are correct it absolutely does not rotate like a gt3 on throttle.
The understeering is because im very early on the throttle(used to front engine cars)low outside temp? and michelins propably not warm enough?
You have a lot of technical knowlege about the proper track setup and i really appreciate your help,if i go on the track i will remmemver your advice.
For now this is solely a street car,would you still advise on changing camber and rear swaybar to soft?
thanks so much for your input in this.
That's a big step up from 135 to GT3 - congrats.
Be patient and go back to basics - slow in fast out, etc. Dave's suggestion of a gear higher is a great idea, especially given the power differential you jumped from a 135 to a GT3. On alignment, I'd say have it checked at least but I don't think you need to go aggressive from the start. These cars have been known to not be right from the factory and if someone had it before you then they may have monkeyed around with it (and the sway bars for that matter). I wouldn't worry about trying to dial out the push with bar adjustments or alignment until you learn how to drive the car. Learn the technique and then start turning the *****.
Lastly and most important - get an instructor to help you out a few sessions. You will be amazed when you see what the car can actually do when you learn to manage the weight balance, etc. You seem like you have some good track experience so I'm sure you appreciate that you won't learn to drive a car based on Internet advice.
Be patient and go back to basics - slow in fast out, etc. Dave's suggestion of a gear higher is a great idea, especially given the power differential you jumped from a 135 to a GT3. On alignment, I'd say have it checked at least but I don't think you need to go aggressive from the start. These cars have been known to not be right from the factory and if someone had it before you then they may have monkeyed around with it (and the sway bars for that matter). I wouldn't worry about trying to dial out the push with bar adjustments or alignment until you learn how to drive the car. Learn the technique and then start turning the *****.
Lastly and most important - get an instructor to help you out a few sessions. You will be amazed when you see what the car can actually do when you learn to manage the weight balance, etc. You seem like you have some good track experience so I'm sure you appreciate that you won't learn to drive a car based on Internet advice.
Seat time & instruction!
•The proper line is the line, regardless of the car
•The throttle is a rheostat, not a ON/OFF switch.
•Trail braking is an acceptable technique. It's use depends upon the corner, but can be as supple as lighting up the brake lights to put a bit of weight on the front.
•The brake pedal is the hardest pedal to master!
The GT3 out of the box, is a better car than most drivers can pilot.
Mods such as alignment, while not bad, can serve to mask bad driving technique.
My 2¢
•The proper line is the line, regardless of the car
•The throttle is a rheostat, not a ON/OFF switch.
•Trail braking is an acceptable technique. It's use depends upon the corner, but can be as supple as lighting up the brake lights to put a bit of weight on the front.
•The brake pedal is the hardest pedal to master!
The GT3 out of the box, is a better car than most drivers can pilot.
Mods such as alignment, while not bad, can serve to mask bad driving technique.
My 2¢
+1 Don't be in a hurry to dump the coach too. Too many folks dump the instructor as soon as they get signed off for solo. Keep up with the instruction and you will learn a ton.
...and VR's comment about driving a gear higher is especially true on a wet track. It's easy to spin the rear tires at 60mph in 2nd gear in the wet. You don't want to do this anywhere near a wall!
Cheers,
...and VR's comment about driving a gear higher is especially true on a wet track. It's easy to spin the rear tires at 60mph in 2nd gear in the wet. You don't want to do this anywhere near a wall!
Cheers,
you can easily get the car to understeer as others have mentioned.the engine is very powerfull and the front end is very light,so when you give it full throttle the car thends to lift the front a little and depress the rear end a lot. its like a fat kid and a skinny kid sitting opposite sides of a seesaw.Only when the fat kid decides to fart he lifts and the skinny one comes back to earth lol.
01-20-2010, 10:05 AM
#28
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I agree with the comments that essentially say that you have to remap how your brain thinks about the brake pedal vs. the gas pedal, and would add the steering wheel to that... use your right foot as a governor on how far you turn the steering wheel and vice versa.
Only on a NASCAR oval 
Tie a mental string from the bottom of the steering wheel to your right foot so that they move in harmony. It will help you establish a rhythm for the corners. With that rhythm, you can then let the car teach you how it wants to be driven instead of trying to figure out how make it do what you are accustomed to from other cars.
You have not yet tracked the car, but seem to have a lot of observations about how the car handles in high speed corners, etc. Dang, get over your hesitancy to put it on the track and work out these issues there.... it's much safer for you, the car, and everyone else. You might even have a blast.Let's assume you compare GT3 to a car which has incredibly bad traction, and a car which has near infinite traction. The one which has horrible tracking will likely have to take wider archs around corners, otherwise it would slip. The car with near infinite traction could just race around the inside line of the track on the curb. Right?
01-20-2010, 12:24 PM
#29
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As to breaking things: Just driving a GT3 around a track won't break it (unless there's something else wrong). The cars are built to be driven on tracks, to be pushed that way. If you do something like screw up a shift or go off in the wrong place, you could damage something. Your concern about damage is absolutely reasonable, just remember, these cars are built to be driven hard.
01-20-2010, 12:46 PM
#30
Since the car is pushing while under power (and not at turn in?), I would guess it is a technique issue (throttle or transition to throttle) and possibly not setup related.
You can trail brake in a GT3. Sometimes you want to, other times you don't. It depends on the corner. I think, fundamentally, the type of corner dictates the amount of trail and not the type of car. For fast sweeper, you would try to use a similar technique whether you are in a GT3 or a Ford Focus - maximum entry speed and on the gas as soon as possible.
Braking / lifting in a corner is just another tool for chassis management. There is a time and place for it. Smooth inputs can be warranted, and abrupt inputs may be disastrous. This applies to any car; however, with the engine in the back, you may have to fine tune your pedal control.
Mine only has 1 setting [996] 
-td
in this do you trail brake till middle of corner and then accelerate?how do you attack a fast long corner? someone teach me im in distress plus the fact that i can hear the engine say i will kill you.
ive heard one big porblem unlike front engine cars is that you cant really brake much less lift off mid corner?
does every1 use the stiff suspension setting on the track?
-td