fun2k

i feel the car wants to under steer while powering through a corner,its very tricky to get the rear planted but once it does it feels glued.i could honestly go much faster in a bmw135i of which i know the limits.
in this do you trail brake till middle of corner and then accelerate?how do you attack a fast long corner? someone teach me im in distress plus the fact that i can hear the engine say i will kill you.

ive heard one big porblem unlike front engine cars is that you cant really brake much less lift off mid corner?

one thing ive noticed is that in pasm mode the car feels a lot more agile.big difference.does every1 use the stiff suspension setting on the track?

mooty

if track is very smooth, i run stiff mode. otherwise soft.

you can trail brake, but if you come from bmw world, i wouldn't trail brake a 911 until you have more experience.

get all braking done in straight line, slow the way hell down, i mean SLOW VERY SLOW. feed throttle, turn, more throttle and full throttle before most apex. but to do this, remember you are very very SLOW entering the turn. if your car pushes, you are entering too fast. if the push is slight, breath on throttle to tuck in.

of course, this is just to get you accustom to the behavior of 911's. once you get a feel of it, you can trail brake and do as you wish, you can also lift, but only a quick lift then back on it.

long fast corner, keep feeding throttle, if you have to back out of throttle, imo, you entered too fast. the only time to back off throttle on a fast long turn is to tuck in the nose and you are merely breathing on the throttle not really backing off.

TRAKCAR

How many days have you tracks a car with instructor? How many days with the GT3?

I think I understand what you mean.

I also have a Mustang, you throw it in the corner sideways. A GT3 needs early braking and power through the corner. If you are too fast into the corner you can lift and brake, these cars are easy to drive, not like old 911's.

But faster in a 135?? I mean there is no comparising..Shocks are always stiff, except for Sebring maybe.

GT3

I've noticed that by staying on the throttle in during a long high speed turn, the car stays glued to the ground. But if I let go of the throttle, the rear wants to slide. BTW, I always drive with the SC+TC off at the track.

roberga

1:get track alinement
2: what mooty said ( wet and rough track with elevation = soft: Portland = stiff)
3: get with a porsche instructor
4: do not drive the BMW line
have fun and never lift in the corner

russo

You need more seat time in the car to learn the car's characteristics.

10 GT3

Per the points above, you are driving a completely different car from a 135i. If you want to go fast in a 911, you should not be driving it in the way you described with the 135i. You will need to learn how to use the weight distribution in the GT3 as an advantage. This is a very stable car that is far easier to drive than a 70's or 80's 911, but it is still a 911 with all the weight out back.

The way you take a corner in a 911 is brake in a straight line before entering the corner and get your right foot on the throttle before turning into the corner. Use light changes on the throttle to keep the rear end stable and use weight transfer to control understeer/oversteer. The front end will bite and turn in. At or before Apex, start rolling in throttle. Most corners you can be at full throttle before corner exit. There is not another car out there that can come off a corner as fast as these cars, but a lot of cars that can enter faster. You do not want to drive it just trying to push through a corner like a front engine understeering car.

Keep also in mind that there is a tremendous amount of tuning that can be done with the stock GT3 suspension. You have 3 different adjustments for camber up front: upper strut slots, rotating the upper hat and adding shims to the lower control arms. These cars have adjustable coilovers from the factory, so you can weight balance each corner. Both the front and rear anti-roll bars are adjustable to change the balance. If the car is too loose, try stiffening the front bar and softening the rear bar. There is a lot you can do to dial in the handling characteristics of your car. By physics alone, you won't ever make the GT3 drive like your previous BMW.

For your line, just start with the traditional "Blue" line for your track. If you go to a PCA DE, ask for an instructor that drives a GT3 or at least a 996 or 997. They will be able to help work with you to learn how to drive the car properly.

Nizer

Consider a 3-day open wheel racing school like Skip Barber or similar. Cars used have similar driving characteristics and power to weight ratios as 911s. Heavy rear weight bias; prone to snap oversteer if you overcook turn entry and panic; prone to understeer on turn exit if you get on the throttle too soon without proper rotation.

Plus, it's a ton of fun and gets you a lot of track time with a nice steep learning curve.

need a 993

I think most people have on Rennlist have memorized the mantra "don't lift." The question that many novice drivers have is what do when you have entered a turn carrying more speed than you should be. In most cars, while it will make for a sloppy corner, you can get away with lifting and scrubbing off speed. What is the proper way to deal with such a situation in a gt3 or other 911?

Track experts please chime in.

Veloce Raptor

I think it's hilarious to see folks claim there are different "lines" for different cars, and that you'd drive a 7GT3 differently than a 135i, and that you can't/shouldn't trail brake a 7GT3. All are IMO untrue.

In my experience, the only cars that you might change lines for is a heavy front drive car. Yeah, the GT3 and the 135 have their greatest mass at different ends.....but you still drive them the same way: using throttle to get weight off the front & reduce inherent understeer. Yeah, the limits of each car are vastloy different, but that's about it.






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

sasportas

I'd be more than happy to take you for a ride in your GT3.

I agree with all that's been said before. What has not been mentioned yet is that you need to remove the michelin pilot sport cups or pirellis from the car. Those tires are designed in such a way that your car will inherently understeer.

#2 - you have to get an aggressive track alignment with at least 2.5 degrees of negative camber in front. As you get advanced you'll want -3.0 degrees.

#3 - definitely adjust your sway bars.

#4 - It ain't no BMW in terms of balance. Get used to it.

Veloce Raptor

Respectfully disagree with some of this for a new owner:

#1: new owners should learn the car with OEM rubbber...which ain't bad

#2: new owners should learn the car with OEM alignment

#3: new owners should learn the car with OEM sway bar settings

#4: very true

If one learns the car as-is, you will become a much better driver...and then making the changes suggested by portas & others will have much more value. In addition, learn to drive the car in track one gear higher than you'd like. IOW, if you think you should take a particular corner in 2nd & wind out the RPMs, do it in 3rd instead. Why? Because it will teach you MUCH more about the car's balance, will teach you to brake much less, and will significantly reduce the chances of looping the car on power, which is where new owners often get bitten.

JMHO....what the heck do I know?....YMMV...






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

TRAKCAR

i said in my first post:
I am no expert and I never drove another 911 besides mine, so I have no idea what people are talking about. Coming out of a Mustang I tend still to go in too fast with too much trail braking to be fast out. I'm unscrewing myself slowly.

If the car pushes, I lift a little / stab the throttle to tuck it in depending on the speed and the corner. I have even gone into slower corners much to fast where I brake medium/hard in the middle of the corner, you have to be ready to catch it, but the car is just so forgiving..

The GT3 has so much rear grip and rear bias brakes that on fast 100MPH+ corners, if I really screw up and the car really steps out, you can always catch it. I've had the car fish tail a bit and by just letting my foot rest on the brake the big rear tires and the big rear brake bias straighten the car out, it's like the car has ESP...

This is not beginner stuff and initially you don't want to go near anything I am describing above.
My point is that the handeling is much easier and safer than the old 911's.

The real danger of the GT3 in the hands of a beginner is the very high speed in combination with a lot of forgiveness initially that can get a beginner in real big trouble when it does all go wrong. Even when you get comfortable, keep an instructor inthe car for a few extra events to fine tune the stuff I talk about above.

997gt3north

My thoughts (sounds like you have tracked a car before so these comments are made assuming this is true)

1) Get a pro (porsche 911 driver) to take you out and show you what is possible with your current setup and ask for his feedback on the car

2) if the car is pushing, pushing pushing, you have a few possible issues:
- you are not getting the car turned enough before getting on throttle (nose lifts = push)
- you are letting your front tires get too hot (sliding, sliding, sliding)
- your bmw doesn't have the rear grip of a gt3 and is not rotating as much (based on what you usually expecting)
- for 2nd gear corners and slower 3rd gear corners, use trail braking to help rotate the rear and add grip to the front with weight transfer
- as stated above, get the front camber of the car to -2.5 with zero toe (this will help a lot)
- run a 245/255 tire at the front of the car (Hoosier 235/35/19 is like a 255 so that works as well) - helps with braking and better front grip

Summary
- front camber + more front rubber fixes most of the problem (the factory gave you the ability to adjust this for a reason - use it -2.5front with 0 toe and -2.2rear with 2mm toe in per side is a great starting track / streetable alignment)
- to be really fast in these cars (you need lots of seat time which is obvious) but so far my own research has made me a believer that you want to set up the car with as much rear grip as possible / soft so you can be as aggressive as possible / early on throttle AND trail brake aggressively / keep the rear end behind you on entry for late braking - I have see it done by a pro in my car and changed my setup accordingly (at his recommendation) becasue once you see what is possible with this car it is almost frightening

paul

TRAKCAR

+1 Exactly what Paul said.

My next and only upgrade will be a pro coach...