SW 3.9 First impressions
11-30-2009, 11:18 AM
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Why do you think the SW is built with better stuff?
11-30-2009, 11:40 AM
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I'm pretty sure Alex has all that info posted on the SW website. I know there's a video floating around of Kermit spanking the SW 3.8 silver car!!
11-30-2009, 11:43 AM
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Thanks for taking the time to give us your impressions. Sounds like there is a night and day difference between the 3.6 and 3.9. I am considering this conversion after I get a few more miles in my car and the warranty has expired or is about to expire. I regularly drive my car at over 7000' elevation so I am just trying to get back some of the lost HP due to altitude.
As some have said before, I am also interested in the long term reliability of the 3.9. It appears that SW has chosen top notch components that are equal or better than OEM. Snowboarder, your original motor had over 37k miles and required some bottom end rebuild also. Do you think that the 3.9 will last as long as the factory 3.6?
Another point to think about is that SW apparently has a very strict break in protocol for their 3.9l with a limit if I recall correctly of 6500rpm for 400mi and then still below redline until 1000 miles. It is common to hear that the GT3 cars should be driven hard right away for the engine to develop full power. Perhaps Porsche does know something about engine break in and following the recommended procedure it isn't just for the benefit of the driver as some have suggested.
As some have said before, I am also interested in the long term reliability of the 3.9. It appears that SW has chosen top notch components that are equal or better than OEM. Snowboarder, your original motor had over 37k miles and required some bottom end rebuild also. Do you think that the 3.9 will last as long as the factory 3.6?
Another point to think about is that SW apparently has a very strict break in protocol for their 3.9l with a limit if I recall correctly of 6500rpm for 400mi and then still below redline until 1000 miles. It is common to hear that the GT3 cars should be driven hard right away for the engine to develop full power. Perhaps Porsche does know something about engine break in and following the recommended procedure it isn't just for the benefit of the driver as some have suggested.
11-30-2009, 12:17 PM
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I wonder how Kermit 3.9 will do against a 2010 RS?
11-30-2009, 04:03 PM
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After putting a few (about 1,000, actually) miles on Kermit, as well, I gotta say that the 3.9 is a shocker. Ralph is not crazy for suggesting it feels like a factory motor.
We did a little "extra" driving with a 2010 3.8, as well, and I prefer the 3.9. The new 3.8, while wonderful, felt like watching TV on "Mute." And not just due to the noise. The strangest thing about the 3.9 is how much smoother it is than the 3.6 (especially) as well as the 3.8. And how it had me almost wishing for AWD. In a GT3.
pete
We did a little "extra" driving with a 2010 3.8, as well, and I prefer the 3.9. The new 3.8, while wonderful, felt like watching TV on "Mute." And not just due to the noise. The strangest thing about the 3.9 is how much smoother it is than the 3.6 (especially) as well as the 3.8. And how it had me almost wishing for AWD. In a GT3.
pete
11-30-2009, 06:25 PM
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Gotta maybe get you/her out on Thill with Tony and see what happens eh
Got a few cars/motors in the works that are being shipped from other areas of the globe so it's not completely impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzeLcvgOVzQ
http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=233
You'll see that we used the same AWD Mustang Dyno over at Stasis and that the 2010 put 392rwhp. A factory 3.6 Mk1 does about 380rwhp on the same dyno. Our does mid 450-ish. I can't get them overlayed however since Stasis shut down out here and move East;( But the video above is also pretty telling. The extra revs help as well
I am considering this conversion after I get a few more miles in my car and the warranty has expired or is about to expire. I regularly drive my car at over 7000' elevation so I am just trying to get back some of the lost HP due to altitude.
As some have said before, I am also interested in the long term reliability of the 3.9. It appears that SW has chosen top notch components that are equal or better than OEM. Snowboarder, your original motor had over 37k miles and required some bottom end rebuild also. Do you think that the 3.9 will last as long as the factory 3.6?
Another point to think about is that SW apparently has a very strict break in protocol for their 3.9l with a limit if I recall correctly of 6500rpm for 400mi and then still below redline until 1000 miles. It is common to hear that the GT3 cars should be driven hard right away for the engine to develop full power. Perhaps Porsche does know something about engine break in and following the recommended procedure it isn't just for the benefit of the driver as some have suggested.
As some have said before, I am also interested in the long term reliability of the 3.9. It appears that SW has chosen top notch components that are equal or better than OEM. Snowboarder, your original motor had over 37k miles and required some bottom end rebuild also. Do you think that the 3.9 will last as long as the factory 3.6?
Another point to think about is that SW apparently has a very strict break in protocol for their 3.9l with a limit if I recall correctly of 6500rpm for 400mi and then still below redline until 1000 miles. It is common to hear that the GT3 cars should be driven hard right away for the engine to develop full power. Perhaps Porsche does know something about engine break in and following the recommended procedure it isn't just for the benefit of the driver as some have suggested.
With regards to the elevation q... would you be using 91 or 93? Either way EVOMS/we have done so much work now with the live tuning (see video above for more on that) that we're able to see what area of the maps are being used and live (and why if you will). We retain the Bosch ME safety features and so even with those tunes the ECU can still utilize its knock-prevention capabilities. FYI each file has 7 different ignition maps (ranging from safety to aggressive) which the car will use depending upon many factors such as octane, elevation, temps etc...
I'd be interested to see an independent comparison. I guess I'm just always skeptical of how tuners can improve the performance of a n/a near-racecar factory engine without destroying its drivability or longevity. I'd be fascinated to see a properly scientific, independent dyno comparison.
I wonder how Kermit 3.9 will do against a 2010 RS?
I wonder how Kermit 3.9 will do against a 2010 RS?
The character and "feel" of the motor was something we very much like. It's hard to beat. Maximum bore along with light weight engine components was the path to keep that we feel. This is why we didn't want to stroke- for fear of loosing some of the character (the way it revs).
We do stand behind our work and from my time in the industry, I've seen and also been involved with prior development/sale of parts, but the amount of time/effort spent on this 3.9 has gone considerably beyond what I've seen in the past. We own the car. Drive it daily and expect others to as well. From both a personal/selfish reason (I love this car/engine) we threw everything and the kitchen sink at it in terms of battle-testing it. This is why we didn't release the 3.8 as a "kit" so to speak. So it took two plus years and we didn't sell anything but the result now is so much more worth it and we'll build 1 or so a month.... I also think it gives a 2-3 year old Mk1 another lease of life. At some point those motors will need some attention and at that time this set up might fit the bill. The other thing we've done on any of the builds we've done thus far and in the future is make _sure_ that the person interested gets a serious drive/test first to see what they think etc...
Then there's the 996
After putting a few (about 1,000, actually) miles on Kermit, as well, I gotta say that the 3.9 is a shocker. Ralph is not crazy for suggesting it feels like a factory motor.
We did a little "extra" driving with a 2010 3.8, as well, and I prefer the 3.9. The new 3.8, while wonderful, felt like watching TV on "Mute." And not just due to the noise. The strangest thing about the 3.9 is how much smoother it is than the 3.6 (especially) as well as the 3.8. And how it had me almost wishing for AWD. In a GT3.
pete
We did a little "extra" driving with a 2010 3.8, as well, and I prefer the 3.9. The new 3.8, while wonderful, felt like watching TV on "Mute." And not just due to the noise. The strangest thing about the 3.9 is how much smoother it is than the 3.6 (especially) as well as the 3.8. And how it had me almost wishing for AWD. In a GT3.
pete
For those that don't know what I mean in terms of the live tuning check out the video below (towards the middle):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzeLcvgOVzQ
Last edited by sharkster; 11-30-2009 at 06:51 PM.
11-30-2009, 06:30 PM
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11-30-2009, 07:04 PM
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Okay, here we go! Please keep in mind I build custom houses for a living and am not a journalist! That being said I will attempt to give you my humble impression of what it’s like to own and drive a Sharkwerks 3.9 GT3. As many of you know I am one of the very first 3.9 conversions done by Sharkwerks and probably the first to experience their creation as Alex and James drove up the coast to my house the morning after they got Kermit running back in July, even before the final tuning. I knew instantly that this was something I had to have done to my car and as soon as possible. I have always been somewhat annoyed with myself for not being patient enough to wait for an RS back in 2006 when I took delivery of my GT3 and was seriously considering the purchase of a 2010 RS. That was until I drove Kermit with the 3.9.
This conversion my friends is truly a work of perfection, it is easier to drive in traffic or on the open road and so much quicker than the stock motor from the factory. The revs are instant and the power band is just so linear. I think the thing that impresses me the most is the availability of the low-end torque and again how smooth it is. It’s almost like it came from the factory like this and now that I think about it, it probably should have.
I took delivery of my car this last Tuesday. The initial break-in miles were done by Alex and James, so the car already had almost 400 miles on it and had its break-in oil changed out with some fresh Moble-1. James gave me very strict orders not to exceed 6500 rpms until I reached at least 1000 miles. I had my 1000 miles last night by the time I got home from a visit to Sharkwerks to have James give the car a once over and his blessing.
I do the majority of my driving on northern California and southern Oregon back roads and this motor shines in this environment. With the 3.6 stocker there were turns when I was in-between gears, when 2nd or 3rd were a just a tad too high or 1st and 2nd a tad too low, with the added torque and extra 400 rpm’s this eliminates a lot of the indecision of which gear to use. I really love the 400 extra rpm’s!!
There was a small learning curve when I first got the car back from SW as the added HP and Torque gave me a couple anxious moments on some of my favorite stretches of road when I would apply throttle on exit. (Never exceeding 6500 rpms, honest James) So, for the first couple days I ended driving as if there was an egg under the right peddle upon exit. I had already installed a pair of 325 MPSC’s on the rear in anticipation of the extra power and boy was I glad I did. Unfortunately I almost had them worn out by the time I got the car to SW so things were a little sketchy until I ended up changing the MPSC’s out for a set of Pirelli Corsa system 325/30 -235/35’s. For the first 37,000 miles I had only used the MPSC’s, (12 sets in all) however after driving Kermit with the Pirelli’s a few weeks earlier I was very impressed and made the change from the MPSC’s for two reasons, first being the rainy season here I wanted to try the Pirellis as I had heard they are preferred in the wet and secondly I was hoping to get more miles out of them then the 3000 miles average I had been getting with the MPSC’s. The grip is equal in my opinion and I will have to wait on the miles report. I can say that after driving Kermit with the 305’s that the larger rears make a huge difference!! A must for anyone thinking about this conversion.
So today was the first time out that I was able to tap into the full power of my own 3.9 and it did not disappoint!! Having driven Kermit hard on several occasions I pretty much knew what to expect but there is nothing like driving your own car set up by you on roads you drive almost on a daily basis and without the fear of damaging someone else’s car.
This motor is just superb! It was cold this morning and the road I chose meandered along the river for several miles so things were damp and even a few places had frost. The Pirellis were perfect. I wish I had changed over earlier; they really give me a lot of confidence on the damp roads and have equal if not more grip then the MPSC’s. As stated earlier the mileage will be a deciding factor for me to continue using them as they do run about $400 a set more then the MPSC’s.
All in all the 3.9 experience is something I really don’t think I have the vocabulary to describe properly. It’s one of those things that people can tell you about and describe, but as an old friend of mine used to say, “The truth of the pudding is in the testing”. You really need to either ride in one of these cars or if you are lucky enough to drive one in order to understand how special this motor is. For me the one word to describe it is “perfect”.
Todays drive was about as good as it gets in my Porsche world. One thing I discovered which I hadn’t noticed before was between 5200-5400 rpms the motor has a huge surge of power, almost like driving an old 930 when the turbo spools up but not nearly as violent, and this motor just pulls and pulls. Can’t wait to put some more miles on this and really loosen it up. More reports later. I love this motor!!
This conversion my friends is truly a work of perfection, it is easier to drive in traffic or on the open road and so much quicker than the stock motor from the factory. The revs are instant and the power band is just so linear. I think the thing that impresses me the most is the availability of the low-end torque and again how smooth it is. It’s almost like it came from the factory like this and now that I think about it, it probably should have.
I took delivery of my car this last Tuesday. The initial break-in miles were done by Alex and James, so the car already had almost 400 miles on it and had its break-in oil changed out with some fresh Moble-1. James gave me very strict orders not to exceed 6500 rpms until I reached at least 1000 miles. I had my 1000 miles last night by the time I got home from a visit to Sharkwerks to have James give the car a once over and his blessing.
I do the majority of my driving on northern California and southern Oregon back roads and this motor shines in this environment. With the 3.6 stocker there were turns when I was in-between gears, when 2nd or 3rd were a just a tad too high or 1st and 2nd a tad too low, with the added torque and extra 400 rpm’s this eliminates a lot of the indecision of which gear to use. I really love the 400 extra rpm’s!!
There was a small learning curve when I first got the car back from SW as the added HP and Torque gave me a couple anxious moments on some of my favorite stretches of road when I would apply throttle on exit. (Never exceeding 6500 rpms, honest James) So, for the first couple days I ended driving as if there was an egg under the right peddle upon exit. I had already installed a pair of 325 MPSC’s on the rear in anticipation of the extra power and boy was I glad I did. Unfortunately I almost had them worn out by the time I got the car to SW so things were a little sketchy until I ended up changing the MPSC’s out for a set of Pirelli Corsa system 325/30 -235/35’s. For the first 37,000 miles I had only used the MPSC’s, (12 sets in all) however after driving Kermit with the Pirelli’s a few weeks earlier I was very impressed and made the change from the MPSC’s for two reasons, first being the rainy season here I wanted to try the Pirellis as I had heard they are preferred in the wet and secondly I was hoping to get more miles out of them then the 3000 miles average I had been getting with the MPSC’s. The grip is equal in my opinion and I will have to wait on the miles report. I can say that after driving Kermit with the 305’s that the larger rears make a huge difference!! A must for anyone thinking about this conversion.
So today was the first time out that I was able to tap into the full power of my own 3.9 and it did not disappoint!! Having driven Kermit hard on several occasions I pretty much knew what to expect but there is nothing like driving your own car set up by you on roads you drive almost on a daily basis and without the fear of damaging someone else’s car.
This motor is just superb! It was cold this morning and the road I chose meandered along the river for several miles so things were damp and even a few places had frost. The Pirellis were perfect. I wish I had changed over earlier; they really give me a lot of confidence on the damp roads and have equal if not more grip then the MPSC’s. As stated earlier the mileage will be a deciding factor for me to continue using them as they do run about $400 a set more then the MPSC’s.
All in all the 3.9 experience is something I really don’t think I have the vocabulary to describe properly. It’s one of those things that people can tell you about and describe, but as an old friend of mine used to say, “The truth of the pudding is in the testing”. You really need to either ride in one of these cars or if you are lucky enough to drive one in order to understand how special this motor is. For me the one word to describe it is “perfect”.
Todays drive was about as good as it gets in my Porsche world. One thing I discovered which I hadn’t noticed before was between 5200-5400 rpms the motor has a huge surge of power, almost like driving an old 930 when the turbo spools up but not nearly as violent, and this motor just pulls and pulls. Can’t wait to put some more miles on this and really loosen it up. More reports later. I love this motor!!
If there was a posterchild for the GT3 it would be youThe other thing I learned is after putting on some more suspension parts, I'm going back to Tony to get that same "Ralph" alignment:P
PS You're right about the 325s. They help a lot when you're on throttle and not facing quite straight
Roger that. I remember the week I got my car I was all poo poo about them and you told me then (that and how I still had the rubber nubs on 'em!). Only a few weeks later a well-known local race car driver asked me if I wanted to "trade" my Pirellis for a set of his new "Cups"... This past month or so I've really begun to understand what a great tire it is. I've got them on my 2010 and pretty glad I do.
11-30-2009, 07:57 PM
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[QUOTE=sharkster;7107999]Hey SnowBoarder, seriously thank you... and it was/is a real pleasure. You were kind enough to show us your "commute" roads and also agreed to wait on the 3.8 (lol!). As much fun as I've had driving it, I had so much fun watching you guys If there was a posterchild for the GT3 it would be you
The other thing I learned is after putting on some more suspension parts, I'm going back to Tony to get that same "Ralph" alignment:P
PS You're right about the 325s. They help a lot when you're on throttle and not facing quite straight
Alex, I need to thank you for shining me on when I wanted to do your 3.8. You just kept telling me, "why don't you wait we are working on making it a little better". At one point I was getting a little annoyed. But the morning you & James showed up at my house with the 3.9 I realized what you were up too, and boy was I glad you kept denying me the 3.8 build. Have I told you how much I like this F%#k'n motor? Hehe. I'm starting to hate the Sunday commute, way to many motorcycles yesterday!! Going to have to go back to my monday-Friday commute. I afraid I'm going to have to upgrade brakes soon, carring way more speed now!
If there was a posterchild for the GT3 it would be youThe other thing I learned is after putting on some more suspension parts, I'm going back to Tony to get that same "Ralph" alignment:P
PS You're right about the 325s. They help a lot when you're on throttle and not facing quite straight
Alex, I need to thank you for shining me on when I wanted to do your 3.8. You just kept telling me, "why don't you wait we are working on making it a little better". At one point I was getting a little annoyed. But the morning you & James showed up at my house with the 3.9 I realized what you were up too, and boy was I glad you kept denying me the 3.8 build. Have I told you how much I like this F%#k'n motor? Hehe. I'm starting to hate the Sunday commute, way to many motorcycles yesterday!! Going to have to go back to my monday-Friday commute.
I afraid I'm going to have to upgrade brakes soon, carring way more speed now!
11-30-2009, 09:50 PM
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[QUOTE=Snowboarder54;7108119]
LOL I know... we weren't very easy going on releasing it as a 3.8 eh? People don't like hearing "No" but...
I have some work to do on the site and updating on yours and a white GT3... They have to get "five" fins now after all
Hey SnowBoarder, seriously thank you... and it was/is a real pleasure. You were kind enough to show us your "commute" roads and also agreed to wait on the 3.8 (lol!). As much fun as I've had driving it, I had so much fun watching you guys If there was a posterchild for the GT3 it would be you
The other thing I learned is after putting on some more suspension parts, I'm going back to Tony to get that same "Ralph" alignment:P
PS You're right about the 325s. They help a lot when you're on throttle and not facing quite straight
Alex, I need to thank you for shining me on when I wanted to do your 3.8. You just kept telling me, "why don't you wait we are working on making it a little better". At one point I was getting a little annoyed. But the morning you & James showed up at my house with the 3.9 I realized what you were up too, and boy was I glad you kept denying me the 3.8 build. Have I told you how much I like this F%#k'n motor? Hehe. I'm starting to hate the Sunday commute, way to many motorcycles yesterday!! Going to have to go back to my monday-Friday commute. I afraid I'm going to have to upgrade brakes soon, carring way more speed now!
If there was a posterchild for the GT3 it would be youThe other thing I learned is after putting on some more suspension parts, I'm going back to Tony to get that same "Ralph" alignment:P
PS You're right about the 325s. They help a lot when you're on throttle and not facing quite straight
Alex, I need to thank you for shining me on when I wanted to do your 3.8. You just kept telling me, "why don't you wait we are working on making it a little better". At one point I was getting a little annoyed. But the morning you & James showed up at my house with the 3.9 I realized what you were up too, and boy was I glad you kept denying me the 3.8 build. Have I told you how much I like this F%#k'n motor? Hehe. I'm starting to hate the Sunday commute, way to many motorcycles yesterday!! Going to have to go back to my monday-Friday commute.
I afraid I'm going to have to upgrade brakes soon, carring way more speed now!I have some work to do on the site and updating on yours and a white GT3... They have to get "five" fins now after all
11-30-2009, 11:00 PM
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Very cool - enjoy Snowboarder! Alex - FWIW - I haven't done business with you but I just have to say I've been very impressed after watching you on a variety of boards for a while now. You seem to be a true enthusiast and a class act and I can see why your business is doing so well. Entrepreneurial success is so dependent on the passion and commitment of the key individuals and you seem to have an endless supply. 