Optional lithium ion battery
11-04-2009, 04:23 PM
#32
It think one could be a little creative in this space. LiPo technology is heavily used in other industries and applications. For the 14lb weight class, fairly heavy duty batteries are available which could be used in the application. The 100A maximum current draw capacity, with a 40A capacity.
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4p...00arate-1.aspx
Higher capacity than the Deka/Braille batteries, with LiPo technology. Makes you think at $356
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4p...00arate-1.aspx
Higher capacity than the Deka/Braille batteries, with LiPo technology. Makes you think at $356
11-04-2009, 06:15 PM
#33
I think that the battery from Voltphreaks is "only" $1299 or $1699 for their biggest one, which still is only 7.5 lbs, so actually a bargain compared to the Porsche battery. I have no idea how reliable they are, and since my battery has not yet died, I've not looked for an excuse to try one.
http://voltphreaks.com/products_street.php
http://voltphreaks.com/products_street.php
The battery GT was talking about, the 14lbs with 100 min of reserve is model# VPR-S40P and is $2,999 Click here to view it .
The lighter, cheaper ones you are referring have a much lower power reserve, i.e., 28min & 44min which puts them in same category as the light versions of the Deka/Braille.
11-04-2009, 06:20 PM
#34
So many people pay the same, or more, for purely cosmetic items: $1365 for illuminated carbon door guards, $1625 for carbon rear console, $2225 for painted PCM panel, $2570 for leather speaker covers, etc., etc. It's a little steep but I have a lot less heartburn over $1700 for the lightweight battery than any of those cosmetic options... Yes, there are less expensive batteries but I like the fact that this is a factory original solution.
11-04-2009, 06:25 PM
#35
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I wonder if the L-Ion battery requires a different charging system,i.e., changes to the alternator and or voltage regulator?
11-04-2009, 06:30 PM
#36
The water cooled cars have a lot of parasite loads (static loads) in the electrical system. These cars need batteries with enough reserve and capacity.
- The stock Moll has a capacity of 70 Ah and a reserve of 115 minutes.
- The common replacement (and lighter) Optima Red 35/75 has a capacity of 44Ah and a reserve of 90 minutes.
We cannot compare a Braille or Odyssey to a Li-Ion battery. In the warm California weather, my 11 lbs Braille needed to be plugged permanently to a trickle charger in the garage. Things got better with the 15 lbs Braille.
At a warm track day I had to unplug the engine cooling fan with the car sitting in the garage, otherwise the Braille would drain out and the car won't start.
A 11 lbs Braille only has 15Ah and 25 minutes of capacity. A 15 lbs Braille has 21Ah and 35 minutes of capacity, still not enough. When I was using my RS with a Braille, I was carrying a jump starter as part of my tools, because more than once the car ran out of juice. My Spec Boxster drained a brand new carbon Braille (15.5 lbs) in 6 days just sitting in the garage.
A 14 lbs Lithium battery (volthpreaks) has a capacity of 48Ah and 100 minutes, better than an Optima Red Top. I already ran an Optima red top in my GT3, and I didn't need to carry a jump starter.
For some, 22 lbs could sound like negligible weight, but consider the location of the stock battery. Also, it is cheaper (per pound) than lighter wheels, a lighter flywheel, PCCB, or carbon body parts.
I'm quite sure that Porsche went through enough testing with this battery before pioneering such technology into mass produced vehicles.
I hope they offer the option in all the Porsche road cars (except Panamera and Cayenne, the anti-thesis of lighter cars).
- The stock Moll has a capacity of 70 Ah and a reserve of 115 minutes.
- The common replacement (and lighter) Optima Red 35/75 has a capacity of 44Ah and a reserve of 90 minutes.
We cannot compare a Braille or Odyssey to a Li-Ion battery. In the warm California weather, my 11 lbs Braille needed to be plugged permanently to a trickle charger in the garage. Things got better with the 15 lbs Braille.
At a warm track day I had to unplug the engine cooling fan with the car sitting in the garage, otherwise the Braille would drain out and the car won't start.
A 11 lbs Braille only has 15Ah and 25 minutes of capacity. A 15 lbs Braille has 21Ah and 35 minutes of capacity, still not enough. When I was using my RS with a Braille, I was carrying a jump starter as part of my tools, because more than once the car ran out of juice. My Spec Boxster drained a brand new carbon Braille (15.5 lbs) in 6 days just sitting in the garage.
A 14 lbs Lithium battery (volthpreaks) has a capacity of 48Ah and 100 minutes, better than an Optima Red Top. I already ran an Optima red top in my GT3, and I didn't need to carry a jump starter.
For some, 22 lbs could sound like negligible weight, but consider the location of the stock battery. Also, it is cheaper (per pound) than lighter wheels, a lighter flywheel, PCCB, or carbon body parts.
I'm quite sure that Porsche went through enough testing with this battery before pioneering such technology into mass produced vehicles.
I hope they offer the option in all the Porsche road cars (except Panamera and Cayenne, the anti-thesis of lighter cars).
11-04-2009, 08:29 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
So you are not just paying for the battery but the charge system as well... pity, as I would love to retrofit it to my 997.1RS....
11-04-2009, 09:30 PM
#38
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Tony from Voltphreaks here, just want to add, the 14 pound Voltphreaks VPR-S40P model isn't what is recommended for Porsche's. The model we recommend is the VPH750. It can still start the car in cold weather, and you don't need to leave it on a trickle charger (if you drive the car at least every 2 weeks or so), even though it has only 14Ah. The VPH750 is cheaper than the Porsche OEM option, though still much more expensive than a lead-acid battery. The VPH750 is comparable to 20 to 30 pound lead-acid batteries.
Based on your observations below for your situation, the VPH750 should last about 5 days, or so, but most applications with the VPH750 results in the battery lasting 2 to 3 weeks. In any case, you don't need jumper cables with any of the Voltphreaks batteries because they will shut off before the battery is completely drained, leaving enough power to still start the car by pushing a button to turn the battery back on. Though you can still carry jumper cables to give other cars a jump.
The VPR-S40P is mainly for applications where you need the battery to run the car a long time when the alternator fails (ALMS, Rally, etc), though of course it would work fine in a Porsche. Risi Competizione ran a single VPR-S40P in their 430GT to win the 24 Hours of Le Mans in France this year!
- Tony (voltphreaks.com)
Based on your observations below for your situation, the VPH750 should last about 5 days, or so, but most applications with the VPH750 results in the battery lasting 2 to 3 weeks. In any case, you don't need jumper cables with any of the Voltphreaks batteries because they will shut off before the battery is completely drained, leaving enough power to still start the car by pushing a button to turn the battery back on. Though you can still carry jumper cables to give other cars a jump.
The VPR-S40P is mainly for applications where you need the battery to run the car a long time when the alternator fails (ALMS, Rally, etc), though of course it would work fine in a Porsche. Risi Competizione ran a single VPR-S40P in their 430GT to win the 24 Hours of Le Mans in France this year!
- Tony (voltphreaks.com)
The water cooled cars have a lot of parasite loads (static loads) in the electrical system. These cars need batteries with enough reserve and capacity.
- The stock Moll has a capacity of 70 Ah and a reserve of 115 minutes.
- The common replacement (and lighter) Optima Red 35/75 has a capacity of 44Ah and a reserve of 90 minutes.
We cannot compare a Braille or Odyssey to a Li-Ion battery. In the warm California weather, my 11 lbs Braille needed to be plugged permanently to a trickle charger in the garage. Things got better with the 15 lbs Braille.
At a warm track day I had to unplug the engine cooling fan with the car sitting in the garage, otherwise the Braille would drain out and the car won't start.
A 11 lbs Braille only has 15Ah and 25 minutes of capacity. A 15 lbs Braille has 21Ah and 35 minutes of capacity, still not enough. When I was using my RS with a Braille, I was carrying a jump starter as part of my tools, because more than once the car ran out of juice. My Spec Boxster drained a brand new carbon Braille (15.5 lbs) in 6 days just sitting in the garage.
A 14 lbs Lithium battery (volthpreaks) has a capacity of 48Ah and 100 minutes, better than an Optima Red Top. I already ran an Optima red top in my GT3, and I didn't need to carry a jump starter.
For some, 22 lbs could sound like negligible weight, but consider the location of the stock battery. Also, it is cheaper (per pound) than lighter wheels, a lighter flywheel, PCCB, or carbon body parts.
I'm quite sure that Porsche went through enough testing with this battery before pioneering such technology into mass produced vehicles.
I hope they offer the option in all the Porsche road cars (except Panamera and Cayenne, the anti-thesis of lighter cars).
- The stock Moll has a capacity of 70 Ah and a reserve of 115 minutes.
- The common replacement (and lighter) Optima Red 35/75 has a capacity of 44Ah and a reserve of 90 minutes.
We cannot compare a Braille or Odyssey to a Li-Ion battery. In the warm California weather, my 11 lbs Braille needed to be plugged permanently to a trickle charger in the garage. Things got better with the 15 lbs Braille.
At a warm track day I had to unplug the engine cooling fan with the car sitting in the garage, otherwise the Braille would drain out and the car won't start.
A 11 lbs Braille only has 15Ah and 25 minutes of capacity. A 15 lbs Braille has 21Ah and 35 minutes of capacity, still not enough. When I was using my RS with a Braille, I was carrying a jump starter as part of my tools, because more than once the car ran out of juice. My Spec Boxster drained a brand new carbon Braille (15.5 lbs) in 6 days just sitting in the garage.
A 14 lbs Lithium battery (volthpreaks) has a capacity of 48Ah and 100 minutes, better than an Optima Red Top. I already ran an Optima red top in my GT3, and I didn't need to carry a jump starter.
For some, 22 lbs could sound like negligible weight, but consider the location of the stock battery. Also, it is cheaper (per pound) than lighter wheels, a lighter flywheel, PCCB, or carbon body parts.
I'm quite sure that Porsche went through enough testing with this battery before pioneering such technology into mass produced vehicles.
I hope they offer the option in all the Porsche road cars (except Panamera and Cayenne, the anti-thesis of lighter cars).
Last edited by vph_tony; 11-05-2009 at 06:38 AM.
11-04-2009, 10:02 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
okay..... so i asked my dealer about this... and they told me it's NOT AVAILABLE as of yet...
???????? anyone have the same problem??????????
???????? anyone have the same problem??????????
11-05-2009, 07:10 AM
#40
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11-05-2009, 11:29 AM
#41
So many people pay the same, or more, for purely cosmetic items: $1365 for illuminated carbon door guards, $1625 for carbon rear console, $2225 for painted PCM panel, $2570 for leather speaker covers, etc., etc. It's a little steep but I have a lot less heartburn over $1700 for the lightweight battery than any of those cosmetic options... Yes, there are less expensive batteries but I like the fact that this is a factory original solution.
11-05-2009, 12:35 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
11-05-2009, 01:10 PM
#43
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11-05-2009, 01:49 PM
#44
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From the order guide:
191 Lightweight Lithium-Ion Battery
Available beginning approximately 01/2010
EZC Carbon package $790
Gear lever[partially, 4.1a] and upper section of handbrake finisher[4.3b] in Carbon finish. Alcantara finish on gear lever[4.1a] including decorative trim on shift pattern[4.1e] in Volcano Grey with shift pattern in White, and handbrake lever[ 4.3a] including inlay in Volcano Grey with GT3 logo in White. Note: available from approximately 03/2010.
EZD Extended carbon package $1,760
Side air vents[2.5a] and central air vent[2.6a] in Carbon finish. Side air vent slats[2.5b] and central air vent slats including switch trim[2.6b] in smooth leather finish in interior color.
Note: available from approximately 03/2010.
191 Lightweight Lithium-Ion Battery
Available beginning approximately 01/2010
EZC Carbon package $790
Gear lever[partially, 4.1a] and upper section of handbrake finisher[4.3b] in Carbon finish. Alcantara finish on gear lever[4.1a] including decorative trim on shift pattern[4.1e] in Volcano Grey with shift pattern in White, and handbrake lever[ 4.3a] including inlay in Volcano Grey with GT3 logo in White. Note: available from approximately 03/2010.
EZD Extended carbon package $1,760
Side air vents[2.5a] and central air vent[2.6a] in Carbon finish. Side air vent slats[2.5b] and central air vent slats including switch trim[2.6b] in smooth leather finish in interior color.
Note: available from approximately 03/2010.
11-05-2009, 03:13 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
From the order guide:
191 Lightweight Lithium-Ion Battery
Available beginning approximately 01/2010
EZC Carbon package $790
Gear lever[partially, 4.1a] and upper section of handbrake finisher[4.3b] in Carbon finish. Alcantara finish on gear lever[4.1a] including decorative trim on shift pattern[4.1e] in Volcano Grey with shift pattern in White, and handbrake lever[ 4.3a] including inlay in Volcano Grey with GT3 logo in White. Note: available from approximately 03/2010.
EZD Extended carbon package $1,760
Side air vents[2.5a] and central air vent[2.6a] in Carbon finish. Side air vent slats[2.5b] and central air vent slats including switch trim[2.6b] in smooth leather finish in interior color.
Note: available from approximately 03/2010.
191 Lightweight Lithium-Ion Battery
Available beginning approximately 01/2010
EZC Carbon package $790
Gear lever[partially, 4.1a] and upper section of handbrake finisher[4.3b] in Carbon finish. Alcantara finish on gear lever[4.1a] including decorative trim on shift pattern[4.1e] in Volcano Grey with shift pattern in White, and handbrake lever[ 4.3a] including inlay in Volcano Grey with GT3 logo in White. Note: available from approximately 03/2010.
EZD Extended carbon package $1,760
Side air vents[2.5a] and central air vent[2.6a] in Carbon finish. Side air vent slats[2.5b] and central air vent slats including switch trim[2.6b] in smooth leather finish in interior color.
Note: available from approximately 03/2010.