Z356

Mnorek: Dynamic Motor Mounts are now going into regular gt3 production but no US delivered '10 gt3 had them at the end of August (2009). Great observations nevertheless. Perhaps the gt2 suspension pieces that are now incorporated into the new 2010 997.2 gt3 are proving their value & worth. Downforce on the mk1 RS has to be same or greater than even the new mkII gt3 (the latter's improvement is vis a vis the old mkI gt3, not the RS). So it would get down to suspension tweaks that the factory has done to improve the handling - the planted feeling you experienced at the Glen.

I would be interested in hearing from enthusiasts that have driven the 'old' 997.1 RS against the ' 'new' 997.2 regular gt3 in back-to-back situations at the track or the street. Several new owners (like Allegretto and 930man) seem to feel their 997.2 gt3 are noticeably 'better' than their old 997.1 RS and I think all of us would like them to expand on these initial 'perceptions'. Some like Alex at Sharkwerkes seems less enthusiastic about the 997.2 gt3 and still favors the 'old' RS (perhaps due to the lighter flywheel). Love to hear from others that have owned or driven extensively both vehicles - old RS vs new regular gt3 and share with us their opinions. z356

NJ-GT

Any new car feels nice.

I would go for the 997.1 RS in Green or Orange. It looks exotic, it handles great on high speed stuff, it needs more power though, but that's an easy fix with Sharky around.

allegretto

Um, yup. in fact, that's my GT3 next to it.

Nizer

My sense is that most reviews of the 10 GT3 understate the changes to the suspension. One test that contained a more thorough detail of changes was published in 911 & Porsche World magazine. If you search online you'll find part of the article but not the full suspension change detail covered in the magazine itself. The comments on suspension changes came from Karsten Schebstad, who works with (for?) Preuninger and is in charge of Development of Performance GT Derivatives. I don't have a scanner to post the whole article but an abbreviated summary of changes noted includes:

Altered pitch, lowering the front 5mm and raising the rear 4mm.
Raised outer bushing and track rod end locations on front axle 10mm (in line with GT2)
Reduced agility of front axle (considered too excessive) by lowering front roll center from 94mm to 55mm and raised the rear from 24mm to 30mm.
Overall roll stiffness unchanged but ratio front to rear changed significantly (from 49/51 to 43/57) by making front anti-roll bar 30% softer and rear 30% stiffer.
Front toe-in reduced from six minutes to zero.
Negative camber slightly increased at front and slightly reduced at rear, by 10mins in both cases, making it minus one degree, 30mins all around.
Damping characteristics changed to increase initial response.
Rear damper bushings stiffer.
Stiffer springs.

Again most reviews only picked up on the anti-roll bar and spring rate change. I can't speak to the validity of the everything listed above but the source seems credible.

RWK

Mike also drove my fully suspesion modded Rs at the glen that day. If I new how to link video I would. 2m-11 sec in traffic!!

To help the readers with car / mod decisions, how about comparisons of the 3 mike?

mnorek

Good point. I was thinking about your car when I stated my opinion. So...

I also drove said 997.1RS for a number of laps at the Glen and it was quite simply the best car I have have driven to date. Given the choice between it, a 997.2 GT3 or a 997.2GT3 RS, I would pick the 997.1RS with mods. The .1RS suspension setup includes (Bob, chime in here) JRZ's, ~900lb springs, RSR uprights, raised subframe, a number of heim-jointed bits, and a little more.

The lap time mentioned is not indicative of what the car can do. Even ignoring the DE traffic penalty, there are a handful of seconds available to me in that car, and more than that to someone like Mr. Murry. That said, a good data point is that I hopped into a car I had never driven before, I wanted to return shiny and with no dents, and with a 220lb weight in the right seat...and I drove around a track for a personal best time.

The .1RS with those mods and setup is by far the most neutral handling, stable, wonderfully pitchable, throttle-steerable track machine I have put my mitts on. Even ignoring cost (and the .1RS equipped as above can be had for less than the cost of a .2RS), the 997.1RS as modified is the Porsche to own.

Targa Tim

I'm sure the .1RS that you described is an excellent car to drive.

But how can you come to the conclusion of picking it over the .2RS if you haven't even driven it yet?? Is your conclusion based on price only?

mnorek

Hi Tim. Yes, my conclusions are definitely based upon price, as is hopefully clear. If cost were no object, a .2RS with the same/similar mods to the .1RS I drove would be the car of choice.

My response was to DRG13, who was up in the air about a .1RS vs a .2 GT3 given the close prices. I have driven both of those cars albeit the .1RS was well modded, so I made my statement based upon those experiences.

As your question implies, in my response to RWK (late apologies to the OP for this hijack) my conclusion that a heavily modified .1RS will out-perform a stock .2RS is based upon an assumption that with the .2RS Porsche will not be issuing a street car with RSR uprights all around, lowered almost to RSR specifications, and with all of the soft parts taken out of the suspension links. If my assumption is wrong, or if Porsche figures out how to improve the handling beyond their arguably most evolved production-based racer, so is my conclusion. But...

I think it a safe assumption that a heavily modified Year n [insert car here] will outperform a stock Year n+1 [insert car model here] unless there is radical change between the years.

Congratulations on your new RS, I look forward to seeing pictures of it!

mooty

targa,

the modded RS talked about is actually heavily modded. if i read right, the subframe is changed? so the roll center would have changed. together with JRZ and RSR uprights. that's easily 20-30k in cost, if not more. and if there were monoballs on varoius joints, it will be easily another 5-10k more. with those mods, no stock car can compare with that.

HOWEVER, if the same mods are installed on the .2RS, then i would take the new RS over the old RS. it's a never ending cliff.... you just keep on freefalling.... :-)

mnorek

Agreed and agreed and you're in the ballpark on costs.

mooty

of course. i have been free falling for a LOOOOOOOOOONG time.
i just hope that the chute will deploy soon....

mnorek

I don't see that chute deploying anytime soon. Someday you'll get the urge to trade the BSR for an RSR and the budget you used to spend racing each season sounds cheap since it equals just the cost of shipping on your new race car. You're doomed.

Jon70

I recall a wide fendered project you were building with your RS. Any final photos?

Nizer

The chute will only deploy if you pull the cord. On the other hand you could just go HALO...

RWK

The suspension on the RS has been done to the fullest extent that I know how. All rubber reoved , full rsr uprights / subframes . ect. The subframe an go up anoher 15mm when the a.c lines are removed this winter.
Still working on the body package. going with 10.5 front wheels, still working on the rear options ( add on flares or full body). We would like to use the wheels off of our other car, but maybe too wide ( offset is large), we will see. Just got the #s on the motorsport parts. Pics this winter, promise