911dev

The $10k was/is available only to those dealers that took additional cars from port. Many dealers did not take advantage if this.

diethelm

When things are not going well, such as now, our first question is how much of a discount? Seems fair as there are more available for sale than buyers.

When things are going well, the sellers want a premium. Seems fair as there are less available for sale than buyers.

Can someone explain to me why the laws of supply and demand should apply in bad times, (we get a discount) and should not apply in the good times, (the dealer gets a premium)?

I thought that is why it is called a manufacturers "suggested" retail price.

Robert Linton

Having had a firm rule about never selling to retail customers, a large part of me hopes and assumes that 20 such people do not exist. On the other hand, it would be fun to do a run of really good parts and make 20 or more Cartridge Edition Porsches. The reason, by the way, for at least 20 people is to be able to reasonably amortize the cost of in excess of $100,000 just for proper metal molds.


P.S. In May 2008, I sent certain individuals at Porsche AG an outline of a plan for a modern day 911R -- 2200 Pounds – 475 HP – 435 Nm Torque (better P/W ratio than the CGT). Things, however, were going well and no one thought such a car was necessary -- or that anyone would care. P.P.S. That car, far more interesting than, at least in my opinion, a CGT or much anything else, could have sold for under $300,000 with a substantial profit for Porsche.

911dev

I guess the speed contest only matters if one truely measures one car's attributes by it's lap time around the Nurbergring.

Add PSE, SPASM w/Axle Diff Lock, Sport Shifter and Sport Chrono (Needed on a C2S, not needed nor desired on a GT3) and you have another $5,300 to the C2S price. One can only measure a 2010 C2S against a 2010 GT3, unless you factor another $7k-$9K model year disparity, so the price difference is now roughly $12k closer imo. (I'm not taking into acount the $4,200 cost of a PDK transmission.) 2010 C2Ss will not likely be discounted as much as Porsche will cut production. Factor in that the C2S still does not have an true Aero Kit nor bigger, lighter, and more visually appearing brakes and Centerlock wheels, etc... Also, this is assuming that one finds their ideal 2009 C2S sitting on a dealer's lot.

You owned two GT3s so you know how these cars feel. Some buyers much prefer the GT3 feel over a C2S even if the GT is not that much faster around the Ring, although a fair bit faster in acceleration contests. Yeah, 12 secs is not really much, however, it's not bad considering that the C2S has a superior transmission.

With that said, I think people that bit on any price above MSRP only have themslelves to blame later.

On another topic, the other thing I real don't understand is how much GT3 owners have complained about price drops. Our economy is in the toilet and 3 year old GT3's are still returning close to 30% of their MSRP, not really so bad considering.

OldGuy

Good Points 911Dev. What I liked about the C2s with Chrono plus is that its faster than the 996 GT3 I had.
in Sport plus the suspension is as tight as the 997 mk I GT3 in Sport mode by my Butt.
I also think with PDK (add 66 lbs) that i would be faster round my favorite track than the 997. I am just
too mistake prone with the manual. 4.1 secs vs 3.8 in accelleration 997Gt3 wont help me given
the time I make up in the corners with the PDK.

red89

Doubt if anyone here paid MSRP back in 07. After typical 20% markup, seems more like 50%. Way more money than brains.

911dev

I know of a couple of buyers that did; here no. Anyway, you're right over MSRP, that's their fault. I know of one guy who bought an RS for $200k. The market began to crash less than 6 months later. Ouch!!! His own fault though.

David A

In this economy that's crazy, they should have a different attitude.

nat3970

Good points...particularly if one is looking at it from a pure supply and demand standpoint. Following this line of thinking one would also have to conclude that now would be one of those market/times when discounts not premium's should apply...

However since as we all know Porsche controls the supply I'd like to go back to my earlier point about brand equity. What I'm advocating is that inconsistent application of Porsche's pricing policies with some dealers taking undue advantage (or trying to) does not help Porsche.

By way of example if a dealer in LA makes an extra $20K whereas other dealers "more or less" play by the rules, Porsche gains nothing financially. One could make the indirect argument that Porsche benefits through the increased loyalty of the LA dealer because they are making money hand over fist, but that's a bit of a falacy because it suggests that Porsche couldn't easily get another dealer to cover the LA market while palying by the general pricing guidelines.

Which brings up the next question. Why should Porsche care? The reason they should care is because if the company is creating artificial demand and neither Porsche nor the end consumer is benefiting but the intermediary is taking more than their fair share, sooner or later this comes back to bite the company. If the secondary market can truly sustain that premium then it might be less of an issue, but particularly in these economic times it more likely will mean that Porsche buyers are going to be faced with a very high/nasty depreciation curve. From a brand management standpoint, in the long run that's not good business.

As final evidence to support my point, I would suggest that we all go back to the beginning of this thread and check out the number of negative comments and level of emotion this topic appears to stir up. Negative energy and resentment on the part of an otherwise loyal Porsche following is bad for the company, particularly when you consider that they are not the ones raking in the extra dollars for the scarce demand that they themselves are helping to create...

The solution: Porsche should either find a way to better way to enforce its pricing policies so that the "recommended" list price actually means something in the aftermarket or alternately raise production enough to allow the price to settle into a modest premium to its recommended list price. That's the way IMHO to make money without pissing people off....

VERBOTN

Clearly a Typo they forgot the '($)' or "-" whichever one prefers

CWay27

If I had the money, I would definitely be one of those 20 to spend 50K for some of Robert's work of art. Sure beats a Farnbacher Caymen 3.8!! for pretty much the same money.

KINGSRULE

Yeh, right!
Who are you kidding!

You crack me up!

PogueMoHone

I wonder, if not doubt, that "smarts" are your strong suit (given your constant attacks). There are many here who have the good sense to not play the game and never ever pay over MSRP.

Why belong to a forum where you continue to make broad attacks on the participants, especially the helpful ones?

Bob Rouleau

Jealous perhaps? Mjones has contributed nothing but good info. How about you?

brendo

Personally, i don't understand the vitriol. people do lots of crazy things in California . they're obviously not targeting the informed buyer. it's capitalism, get over it.

Mjones outted the dealership and the RL community flamed them. job done.