997.1 or 997.2 or F430?
03-31-2009 | 10:19 PM
#17
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From: Los Altos Hills, CA
Gary
03-31-2009 | 10:39 PM
#18
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From: Not Germany :(
Have you driven one? Personally (having owned many, many Porsches, a 360 and now a 430) I think the Ferrari is far more engaging to drive. The Porsche makes a better track car (only because more inexpensive race-oriented parts available, the stock track performance is similar) but the Ferrari is way more fun on the street (IMO). Much superior exhaust note, short gears, mid-engine vehicle dynamics...you really must try one, I think it will open your eyes.
Gary
Gary
03-31-2009 | 10:49 PM
#19
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From: Not Germany :(
I have conducted a series of rigorous, scientific tests -- NOT -- on this issue. Ranging from Ducati and Aprilia to Porsche and various hot rods, boats, snow mobiles, two-stroke, four-stroke, turbo-, super-charged, you name it, I've variously tried to cosset the thing in white gloves or wring its neck in blizzard conditions and drown it in salt water.
In the context of modern day production line four stroke engines with vehicles sold under warranty in the US, there's abso-f-uggin-lutely no difference either way. Just go drive it. Don't abuse the rev limiter, down abuse the clutch (arguably something that needs time to chemically adjust to its hostile existence) and don't abuse the working surfaces of the gearbox -- be smooth. But otherwise, use it all.
I've had three GT3's in the last three years. I've driven the current one and the first one as if there was a covenant with an angel to care for this car. Nothing went wrong. I drove the last one as if there was a debt to the devil t destroy it. Nothing went wrong. Not rear main seal leak, no warranty claims of any sort other than a squeaky front PASM strut. No PCCB failure despite trying to use every ounce of them with a dozen or more track days at Laguna and Sears.
I understand the chemical and mechanical concept of "break in" and it still applies today, but I think in terms of hours, not thousands of miles. I think in terms of getting say 20 hours at an average of say 50 miles an hour, then changing the fluids to expel any initial contaminants and wear material.
Right now, I just checked my Cayenne Power Kit Turbo for its 40,000 mile "major" service. With the oil and filter replaced 5K miles ago (Cayenne Turbos burn oil) at now 42K miles, I find the fluid to be remarkably clear and clean despite, let's say, "ample" throttle application.
Personally, I see no harm in driving the car a comfortable 1000 miles or say 1500 Km, then -- after changing the fluids -- really getting into the car. If I took factory delivery and drove directly to the ring, both the car and the driver would be unprepared. That first visit to the ring would be strictly a religious experience, not a hard core driving expedition.
In the context of modern day production line four stroke engines with vehicles sold under warranty in the US, there's abso-f-uggin-lutely no difference either way. Just go drive it. Don't abuse the rev limiter, down abuse the clutch (arguably something that needs time to chemically adjust to its hostile existence) and don't abuse the working surfaces of the gearbox -- be smooth. But otherwise, use it all.
I've had three GT3's in the last three years. I've driven the current one and the first one as if there was a covenant with an angel to care for this car. Nothing went wrong. I drove the last one as if there was a debt to the devil t destroy it. Nothing went wrong. Not rear main seal leak, no warranty claims of any sort other than a squeaky front PASM strut. No PCCB failure despite trying to use every ounce of them with a dozen or more track days at Laguna and Sears.
I understand the chemical and mechanical concept of "break in" and it still applies today, but I think in terms of hours, not thousands of miles. I think in terms of getting say 20 hours at an average of say 50 miles an hour, then changing the fluids to expel any initial contaminants and wear material.
Right now, I just checked my Cayenne Power Kit Turbo for its 40,000 mile "major" service. With the oil and filter replaced 5K miles ago (Cayenne Turbos burn oil) at now 42K miles, I find the fluid to be remarkably clear and clean despite, let's say, "ample" throttle application.
Personally, I see no harm in driving the car a comfortable 1000 miles or say 1500 Km, then -- after changing the fluids -- really getting into the car. If I took factory delivery and drove directly to the ring, both the car and the driver would be unprepared. That first visit to the ring would be strictly a religious experience, not a hard core driving expedition.
i did just that. it was easy to drive the ring as it was 1. new unfamiliar car, 2. wet track. 3. unfamiliar track (only had 20 laps on the nordschleife and never been on the gp track before). I just short shifted it which helped make my throttle input smoother. i went through 600km in 2 days and then gradually upped the rpm's. the car has 10k miles on it now and although I track the car, it gets maintenance after every track day including oil change. i flushed the brake fluid 3 times and its had an alignment 4 times now. before every track event it gets checked by a mechanic on a lift to inspect everything including all the bushings. i did this same thing with my previous M3 and it served me for 5 years and looked and drove like new when i sold it. just because a car is tracked doesn't mean it is abused. Its a GT3...I would be more worried about buying a garage queen that sat for months at a time.
04-01-2009 | 01:16 AM
#21
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From: san francisco
04-01-2009 | 01:18 AM
#22
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Have you driven one? Personally (having owned many, many Porsches, a 360 and now a 430) I think the Ferrari is far more engaging to drive. The Porsche makes a better track car (only because more inexpensive race-oriented parts available, the stock track performance is similar) but the Ferrari is way more fun on the street (IMO). Much superior exhaust note, short gears, mid-engine vehicle dynamics...you really must try one, I think it will open your eyes.
Gary
Gary
p car became utiliarian....
04-01-2009 | 01:23 AM
#23
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Delivery June 7, Nurburgring June 8? Whatever happened to the safe and sane and conservative break-in? I'm asking because I've gotten mostly the "party line" on break-in on the forums, but in private many Porsche people advocate the "drive it like you stole it" method. What do you track guys do with a new motor?
My ship comes in soon and I still want to know.
My ship comes in soon and I still want to know.
now i just abuse them.
i paid for it. i will abuse it as i see fit.
none has blown up on track.
why waste the first 1000 miles. it's a virgin, ride it hard. how often you gonna find virgins now... oops, wrong forum.
04-01-2009 | 03:26 AM
#24
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From: Not Germany :(
04-01-2009 | 11:05 AM
#25
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From: Germany
If you move to Germany and if you've caught the 'Ring bug then by all means keep your GT3 and ship it to Germany. GT3 + Nordschleife = driver's heaven
Let the set-up get checked by Manthey, get your Jahreskarte and have fun Let me know if you're looking for a NoS playmate
May I ask to which region of Germany you'll move ? It's not that I'm curious, but if you consider to get the F-car it makes a difference. No prob in Hamburg or Düsseldorf, but in the Swabian countryside your neighbours will be very conservative...(that's diplomatic language).
Anyway I wish you all the best with your move to Germany and perhaps we'll eventually meet up at the holy tarmac in the Eifel.
04-01-2009 | 10:39 PM
#26
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Have you driven one? Personally (having owned many, many Porsches, a 360 and now a 430) I think the Ferrari is far more engaging to drive. The Porsche makes a better track car (only because more inexpensive race-oriented parts available, the stock track performance is similar) but the Ferrari is way more fun on the street (IMO). Much superior exhaust note, short gears, mid-engine vehicle dynamics...you really must try one, I think it will open your eyes.
Gary
Gary
A much, much more expensive mistake would be my educated guess. Then again, if $$ are no object, it's a non-issue. Just thinking practically here.
04-01-2009 | 11:40 PM
#27
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As much as I love all things 911, F-cars and Lambos (if I'm honest) elicit a visceral reaction that no other car can touch. If that's what you're after, you won't be satisfied with a Porsche (short of a CGT). Personally, I think the italians are a bit vulgar and wouldn't own one unless I had a 5 car garage, but I will admit that my heart races a little when I'm sharing the road with one.
This all assumes pure road use. If you're tracking the car and don't light your cigars with lit hundred dollar bills, go with the Porsche.
This all assumes pure road use. If you're tracking the car and don't light your cigars with lit hundred dollar bills, go with the Porsche.
04-02-2009 | 10:54 AM
#28
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From: Los Altos Hills, CA
Gary, I don't doubt your post at all, however, what happens when you go off in a 430 vs. the 3? And how much more likely are you to lose it in the 430?
A much, much more expensive mistake would be my educated guess. Then again, if $$ are no object, it's a non-issue. Just thinking practically here.
A much, much more expensive mistake would be my educated guess. Then again, if $$ are no object, it's a non-issue. Just thinking practically here.
If you go off and hit something it will be expensive in the Ferrari, no doubt, but really this is not a car I would buy for track duty, but I feel that way about the RS also, because I don't have an unlimited budget and both represent too much potential loss for me.
Gary
