todinlaw

I am curious if anyone has experimented with adjusting the rear spoiler. PCA's tech forum just posted the "HOW TO" adjustment of the rear spoiler. I have been thinking about trying some adjustments this winter to springs and sways and just wondered if anyone has comments about the rear wing. I did a search and did not find any discussion.
So adding more wing is going to give the rear more bit, more down force less oversteer more understeer. depending on the speed of the turn of course.

lawjdc

Good luck adjusting the GT3 spoiler. I gave up and got an RS spoiler. Don't worry about understeer with the extra downforce from a stock spoiler. It will only help to plant the rear a little bit better.

997gt3north

- if you search under my previous posts, i posted about 18 months ago (with pictures and exact details) how to adjust the stock gt3 wing

- there is also multiple posts about the wing and the "feel" difference

- once you have set up your car to turn-in really well (i.e. enough front camber), you can then play with the wing - otherwise leave it alone

- my feeling is that if you visit tracks where there is a very serious risk of very bad things happening at very highspeed if the rear end comes around, then almost by definition you should be running some rear wing as an insurance policy - Watkins Glen esses, Mosport #4 as examples - you should also own and use a HANs device with cage and harnesses

- when i ran Mosport and Watkins Glen with the gt3 stock spoiler, i would put the rear spoiler in the highest position - in these two corners you can feel the difference but you have to be going 95%+ (i.e. 2:16 or below at Watkins on stock OE MPSCs or 1:37 or below at Mosport) - in these two examples, you are carrying serious speed at the crest in the esses at Watkins and very serious speed down #4 at Mosport and in both cases the rear end is fighting "drifting" to the right (at Watkins into the wall and at Mosport you just don't want to think about it because you well if it goes that could be all she wrote for not only your car but for you as well)

- anyways, since these are basically my two home tracks, that is why I purchased the RS wing and I run it at 10 degrees (may stupid, maybe i'm fooling myslef) but there is no question that at the speed you take those corners i mentioned above you "can" feel the downforce and it is holding the rear end more securely on the pavement

- as a side note, and very possibly related, as i always run the rear RS wing at 10 degrees, i have gradually reduced my rear camber to -2.2 degrees with the front at -2.8 with toe out and the car is very neutral at highspeed (and I run the gt2 rear bar in the middle hole) - so maybe it is the wing that makes my setup neutral with the gt2 bar when others say they prefer a softer rear bar

- summary, add some rear wing, there is really no downside as long as you have the front of the car turing - on slower tracks there is really no effect from the wing

- if you also search the 996gt3 board (lvdell) has also commented extensively about his experience with the 996gt3 with the RS wing as VIR and how he feels 8 degrees is optimal as it allows him to take the uphill section faster and only robs his straight away speed by a few mph - but in the aggregate it is faster with the wing at max attack - as I have also run VIR a few times with the wing at 10 degrees I can also confirm that with the wing at 10 degress i was faster in the uphill "for sure" and I was still able to pull on a 996gt3 2/3s the way down the front straight so the drag effect was minimal


paul

todinlaw

Thanks Paul, I did do a search but I limited it to the 997 board. I will check again. My home track is Mid-Ohio and I am not sure more wing is needed hear but next year planning on doing both Watkins and VIR. When I do the Glen I will be sure to give you a shout. I think i have my track settings camber wise good, close to what yo are running, that all may change after i fiddle with it this winter. But I am thinking that the wing adjustments give us just a bit more to play with on rear bit, so why not experiment with it.

C.J. Ichiban

frank, if you need help with the front end turning in, the cup car chin spoiler helps as well-

you start to feel front end downforce from the butt dyno around 70-75mph depending on the radius of the turn, and the rear end you will really notice if you need it or not once you get over 100mph.

at 130+ aero is essential in order to turn the car unless the turn is super wide...

having the RS wing at max attack (always) and the cup chin spoiler gives the car noticeable stability at speeds where code browns occur.


I also agree with paul that when you have the max wing angle in the rear, you start to get more of a need for front camber in order to balance the car, and less rear camber. My basic alignment numbers are pretty close to his (although I could have used a much stiffer front sway bar setting at infineon for T10 this weekend)

TRAKCAR

Anyone played with rear wing at Daytona?
I hear 170Mph plus, so if the rear stays planted over the bumpy oval, seems like a good idea.

Will be driving to Daytona tomorrow, I do not have an No RS wing, but I think Daytona classifies as code brown, so I gave the stock GT3 4 degree's.
I only run 1.8 neg camber in the front, but with my front engine drive style, I still never felt push, but I will be paying attention to that while I am learning slower in and faster out (pushing) with the GT3.

todinlaw

Paul would be better at answering than I as I do not have real high speed experience. My top speed at Mid-Ohio before turn in is 150, and its all hard braking. I do carry about -2.3 degrees of front camber. I would think at high speed tracks camber is Less of an issue. Also, I would guess that you may want to run the suspension on soft. I would be running rear wing at full attack just because I'm chicken when i start rolling big triple digits.

AudiOn19s

Frank,
FWIW I messed around with my wing settings at Mid Ohio some (granted my wing is the MKI "taco" vs the 997 wing). It seem'd to help a little with rear end stability in T1, only seemed to kill maybe 2mph down the back straight (I'm -15mph from you though by the end of the straight). Didn't notice a difference anywhere else.

BUT it killed some rearward visibility and since I still use the car mostly on the street I decided to put it back down in the stock spot and was too lazy to mess with it the remainder of the year.

Andy

TRAKCAR

My setup is a bit weird as I am trying to learn the car, my outside front tires are wearing more than the inside and the car is still not under steering, but as I adapt to the car I guess it will get understeer, so I am waiting for me to find the understeer and than change the setup (Lower and more neg camber in the front). I will run soft I think also, I only ran Sebring and I tried hard, made the car worse and Daytona seems to bumpy also..

Mine is my daily driver, I am tall and all I see is the roll bar anyway.
Not worried about top speed, I doubt that I will want to go that fast anyway ;-) my max speed up unitll now was 145 into turn 17 at Sebring.

todinlaw

Let me just say this about my experience with the GT3 Push, with the stock street set up it is noticeable to the point that the car is just slower. once I put a more agressive alignment on it, including 0 to Positive toe in the front, it turned in a bunch better. However i also get around its pushy characteristics by a little trail braking in slow corners and throttle modulation in faster ones. Now the question is could I be faster by getting the car more neutral, that is what I intend on finding out next year with some spring rate and sway adjustments. Bottom line if you are having fun, and are not exceeding the limits of your set up, then its all good. Go have a bunch of fun.

va122

FWIW I ran a stock 6GT3 wing at 8 and 10 deg at Cal Speedway, I couldn't tell the difference between 8 and 10 but between 4 and 8 there was a noticable difference. To put it in context i hit about 167 on the banking.

stout

I'm sure some wing would help at Daytona, but the bowl itself is pretty amazing in terms of keeping a car "planted" at speed. I drove a 914-6 GT there with NO aero aids and was surprised by how planted the car felt at 150+ mph, and non-spoilered 914s are notorious for getting "iffy" at 130-140~mph. Then I tried a 964 Turbo race car for tamer "parade" laps at 140 mph or so, and, well, I have to say real aero plus the old 930 whale tail made the experience like driving a Cayenne on the freeway by comparison.

I can only imagine a modern 7 GT all dialed in. I seem to remember a street 996 GT3 passing a 996 GT3 Cup on the banking at RRII in 2004 and that being the talk of the town...

Have fun!

pete

TRAKCAR

I just got back from Daytona, saw 160+ on the speedo, I will check Trackmate what the real speed was.
The front felt very light, it was windy, so with some gusts it was a funny disorienting feeling on the steep banking.

It was good to have the rear planted for breaking at those speeds coming of the banking and I ran out of guts before I ran out of speed, so the wing at 4 degrees was not the limiting factor :-), not sure what it means but I ran a few 2:07's laptimes, with traffic 2:09-2:10 most of them.

todinlaw

It sure sounds like fun. I bet you went faster than 160, at that speed you can't spend to much time gazing at the spedo.