Slight OT, but as promised- my review of the R8
08-29-2008, 10:18 PM
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Slight OT, but as promised- my review of the R8
okay folks, you've seen them on top gear, you've seen them on ebay....
the R8.
what is this car? an alien ufo mixed with an RS4? A dumbed down Gallardo? A threat to the gt3 on track? A threat to 911 Turbo sales? I'm gonna shoot you straight on what I think. As you can see in my signature- I'm not glued to any one brand, so please don't start with any xenophobic anti-whatever stuff.
I drove an R8 with the R-tronic transmission yesterday for a good 25 minutes. I shifted, turned, gassed, braked, parking lotted, speed bumped, swerved through traffic, etc.
lets start with what I like-
Looks wise, it's a winner- very unique looking, but not as goomba "look at me" as a Rosso colored F430. The car is smaller than it looks in pictures and television commercials, unlike a 997 which is actually a bit larger than it looks in the magazines. The car has probably the best looking front end on sale today- those LED lights look pretty rad and this particular car (black on black, black sideblade) was pretty menacing. From the rear, it's wide (which is good I think) and you can see the cool engine with dry sump technology exposed in the rear window thingy.
the brakes are awesome- big brakes from the Gallardo (vented and cross drilled with huge 6 piston calipers front, 4 rear* i think) and also shared with the lowly RS4 aka "the M3 killer." I don't need to elaborate, as brakes are good when they're good and they're **** when they're ****. fade wise, no comment because I wasn't lapping at the track but I've driven the same ones on my RS4 for 14k miles and they're sweet in all conditions- just heavy as hell.
The nav screen is nice- same as the gallardo and RS4.
The chassis is incredibly stiff- like a rock- a seam welded, aluminum rock that is. You can set the suspension in sport mode- like a porsche with PASM, but the ride is pretty nice, and the fact that the wheels are WAY out at the corners helps this rigid, solid feel as well. I really liked the way I could tell the body was stiff. In sport mode, the suspension was a bit jumpy vertically, similar to a 996gt3 but with a more classy dampening effect.
The engine is very pretty, and the spoiler looks cool, but it's kinda like the veyron because it functions as more of an air-brake vs a planar wing like a gt3.
The shift **** in your right hand feels like solid aluminum, and might be. It's heavy, sturdy, and thick- which in a 100k+ car it better be.
and that concludes what I like about the car.
The R-tronic is very slow shifting, and the cheesy paddles are actually lower spec then you get on the R32. The paddles absolutely should be a non-plastic material. I definitely said to myself: They are straight up VW jetta quality plastic.
I tried it in various settings and really couldn't find a comfortable rhythm with it- similar in delivery to a 2002 Ferrari 575 I drove a few weeks ago...going from 1st to 2nd is really awkward, so much so that it's better to just start in 2nd half the time. The R-tronic must have a screwed up final drive ratio, because it honestly feels like my RS4 pulls harder (manual transmission, could be apples/oranges) with the same engine. The car is probably geared wrong with this gearbox, and I'm talking for acceleration- not gas mileage.
The car is heavy. how heavy? Ford heavy. after driving a gt3 which is arguably around 3000-3200 lbs depending on lunacy with the options checklist and carpet removal...this thing felt fat- like what I imagine the GTR feels like. The car either needs to lose 500 lbs or gain 75HP to feel like it's properly competitive with a GT3. It's more like a 996 turbo, I'd say the 997tt but that's actually got about 60 more hp and over 100 more lb/ft of tQ. This is the same engine in the RS4 (and S4 really, just diff't tune) but since the car weighs about the same (RS4- 3700 lbs R8- 3500 lbs dry) it "goes" about the same. which as an RS4 owner makes me feel good, but as a potential R8 buyer sours me greatly.
sure, it's sexy-
but why does it look so much like a new audi TT from the side and rear?
If want a car to look like a ferrari...guess I better get a ferrari. it's almost too bland somehow- and they had them in white, daytona grey pearl, and black. I really gave it a good look. The roundness of the roofline hurts this car.
The interior lacked the full carbon or full leather I hoped to see, and other than the severe lack of upwards visibility (I'm 73.75 inches tall) I really wasn't surprised as everything was a bit too understated. I'm critical of this because it's a heavier car than it should be, and lord knows if you have a heavy car- it better either be luxurious (bentley) or awfully james bond (v8 vantage, db9)
it's not loud enough! I want my 120k msrp alien space ship to sound like fire and brimstone. and from the inside of the cabin, it's a little too much zoom zoom and not enough boom boom.
the R10 is coming folks- with REAL hp (over 500) and REAL tq (about 400)- not some "racing version" of the (msrp:70k) RS4 engine. It's not that racy!
the biggest laugh- on sale for basically what you'd pay for a 360Challenge Stradale, or around $170-180k...ludicrous! it's going to be obsolete in 3 months after the paris auto show reveals the R10!
In my opinion, this is a sport/ touring car. This is not a track car! NO WAY is this a track car* unless you gut at least 350 lbs out of it, but more like 500. It will sure as hell be a sexy car to valet park in front of your local wine bistro. I was really sad about all of this and I feel like your parents telling you santa isn't real...
GOOD Cliffs notes:
BAD:
honestly- at sticker price, I'd rather have the aston martin v8 vantage! it's got a much better sounding engine/exhaust, far better interior materials, and it looks more like a vanquish vs a gemballa'd audi TT. how much will it depreciate? I don't know. How tuneable is it? I'll ask around.
looks like: an italian space ship (
)
drives like: 997 C4S tiptronic, 996TT
steers like: Cayman S (this is a compliment)
sounds like: Audi S4 (RS4 is louder)
costs like:used ferrari, new bentley, aston martin (plus vacation in europe), or a 997GT3 + spec boxster
audi R8 = V8 vantage / Audi TT *RS4 (drivetrain and brakes)
the R8.
what is this car? an alien ufo mixed with an RS4? A dumbed down Gallardo? A threat to the gt3 on track? A threat to 911 Turbo sales? I'm gonna shoot you straight on what I think. As you can see in my signature- I'm not glued to any one brand, so please don't start with any xenophobic anti-whatever stuff.
I drove an R8 with the R-tronic transmission yesterday for a good 25 minutes. I shifted, turned, gassed, braked, parking lotted, speed bumped, swerved through traffic, etc.
lets start with what I like-
Looks wise, it's a winner- very unique looking, but not as goomba "look at me" as a Rosso colored F430. The car is smaller than it looks in pictures and television commercials, unlike a 997 which is actually a bit larger than it looks in the magazines. The car has probably the best looking front end on sale today- those LED lights look pretty rad and this particular car (black on black, black sideblade) was pretty menacing. From the rear, it's wide (which is good I think) and you can see the cool engine with dry sump technology exposed in the rear window thingy.
the brakes are awesome- big brakes from the Gallardo (vented and cross drilled with huge 6 piston calipers front, 4 rear* i think) and also shared with the lowly RS4 aka "the M3 killer." I don't need to elaborate, as brakes are good when they're good and they're **** when they're ****. fade wise, no comment because I wasn't lapping at the track but I've driven the same ones on my RS4 for 14k miles and they're sweet in all conditions- just heavy as hell.
The nav screen is nice- same as the gallardo and RS4.
The chassis is incredibly stiff- like a rock- a seam welded, aluminum rock that is. You can set the suspension in sport mode- like a porsche with PASM, but the ride is pretty nice, and the fact that the wheels are WAY out at the corners helps this rigid, solid feel as well. I really liked the way I could tell the body was stiff. In sport mode, the suspension was a bit jumpy vertically, similar to a 996gt3 but with a more classy dampening effect.
The engine is very pretty, and the spoiler looks cool, but it's kinda like the veyron because it functions as more of an air-brake vs a planar wing like a gt3.
The shift **** in your right hand feels like solid aluminum, and might be. It's heavy, sturdy, and thick- which in a 100k+ car it better be.
and that concludes what I like about the car.
The R-tronic is very slow shifting, and the cheesy paddles are actually lower spec then you get on the R32. The paddles absolutely should be a non-plastic material. I definitely said to myself: They are straight up VW jetta quality plastic.
I tried it in various settings and really couldn't find a comfortable rhythm with it- similar in delivery to a 2002 Ferrari 575 I drove a few weeks ago...going from 1st to 2nd is really awkward, so much so that it's better to just start in 2nd half the time. The R-tronic must have a screwed up final drive ratio, because it honestly feels like my RS4 pulls harder (manual transmission, could be apples/oranges) with the same engine. The car is probably geared wrong with this gearbox, and I'm talking for acceleration- not gas mileage.
The car is heavy. how heavy? Ford heavy. after driving a gt3 which is arguably around 3000-3200 lbs depending on lunacy with the options checklist and carpet removal...this thing felt fat- like what I imagine the GTR feels like. The car either needs to lose 500 lbs or gain 75HP to feel like it's properly competitive with a GT3. It's more like a 996 turbo, I'd say the 997tt but that's actually got about 60 more hp and over 100 more lb/ft of tQ. This is the same engine in the RS4 (and S4 really, just diff't tune) but since the car weighs about the same (RS4- 3700 lbs R8- 3500 lbs dry) it "goes" about the same. which as an RS4 owner makes me feel good, but as a potential R8 buyer sours me greatly.
sure, it's sexy-
but why does it look so much like a new audi TT from the side and rear?
If want a car to look like a ferrari...guess I better get a ferrari. it's almost too bland somehow- and they had them in white, daytona grey pearl, and black. I really gave it a good look. The roundness of the roofline hurts this car.
The interior lacked the full carbon or full leather I hoped to see, and other than the severe lack of upwards visibility (I'm 73.75 inches tall) I really wasn't surprised as everything was a bit too understated. I'm critical of this because it's a heavier car than it should be, and lord knows if you have a heavy car- it better either be luxurious (bentley) or awfully james bond (v8 vantage, db9)
it's not loud enough! I want my 120k msrp alien space ship to sound like fire and brimstone. and from the inside of the cabin, it's a little too much zoom zoom and not enough boom boom.
the R10 is coming folks- with REAL hp (over 500) and REAL tq (about 400)- not some "racing version" of the (msrp:70k) RS4 engine. It's not that racy!
the biggest laugh- on sale for basically what you'd pay for a 360Challenge Stradale, or around $170-180k...ludicrous! it's going to be obsolete in 3 months after the paris auto show reveals the R10!
In my opinion, this is a sport/ touring car. This is not a track car! NO WAY is this a track car* unless you gut at least 350 lbs out of it, but more like 500. It will sure as hell be a sexy car to valet park in front of your local wine bistro. I was really sad about all of this and I feel like your parents telling you santa isn't real...
GOOD Cliffs notes:
- car is sexy
- car is futuristic looking
- great chassis and stiff frame
- not that bad to steer at parking lot speeds
BAD:
- very heavy, and not good enough interior materials
- too much like an audi TT with a nose job
- dealer still trying to get 60 over sticker. FOR AN AUDI!
- not a track car- especially with the Rtronic
- better, faster, newer R10 model right around corner
- most important parts are exact same on Audi RS4 sedan!
honestly- at sticker price, I'd rather have the aston martin v8 vantage! it's got a much better sounding engine/exhaust, far better interior materials, and it looks more like a vanquish vs a gemballa'd audi TT. how much will it depreciate? I don't know. How tuneable is it? I'll ask around.
looks like: an italian space ship (
)drives like: 997 C4S tiptronic, 996TT
steers like: Cayman S (this is a compliment)
sounds like: Audi S4 (RS4 is louder)
costs like:
used ferrari, new bentley, aston martin (plus vacation in europe), or a 997GT3 + spec boxsteraudi R8 = V8 vantage / Audi TT *RS4 (drivetrain and brakes)
08-29-2008, 11:28 PM
#2
Great write up. I have not had a chance to drive one yet but have seen quite a few and sat in two. Personally I think it looks too much like a TT except from the rear where the JLo fat *** is attractive. For 10K less the 6 speed is the only way to go. Not sure it will be sufficient to move me out of the GT3 but I'm not asking for my deposit back just yet.
08-29-2008, 11:34 PM
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the stick will absolutely be the way to go! I'm hoping that more time spent in the car would make me more of a fan, but already having such a great drivetrain in the RS4 makes the R8 a bit anticlimactic for me.
with less weight, louder exhaust, and 6 speed, it's a cool car if you can get it at sticker.
last thing about the r10- they're trying to pull a ferrari and only sell them to people who bought R8s.
with less weight, louder exhaust, and 6 speed, it's a cool car if you can get it at sticker.
last thing about the r10- they're trying to pull a ferrari and only sell them to people who bought R8s.
08-29-2008, 11:39 PM
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Great write up and even though I haven't tried one, everything you said is really not surprising. Like you said, I would get a GT3 RS for the track and Aston V8 for a cool GT car.
Thanks again and what's your next write up going to be about?? It looks like you found some cool things to do while being on recovery..... Keep it up!!
Thanks again and what's your next write up going to be about?? It looks like you found some cool things to do while being on recovery..... Keep it up!!
08-29-2008, 11:42 PM
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my next write ups will be about my new to me F250 diesel crew cab, and my test day with a Formula Mazda
and how it compares to the skip barber formula car as well as my Mx5 cup and RS on the track.
look for both on sunday/monday night!
and how it compares to the skip barber formula car as well as my Mx5 cup and RS on the track.look for both on sunday/monday night!
08-30-2008, 12:05 AM
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A local guy (very accomplished track driver) used to own a 996 GT3 and now his latest toy is an R8. I talked to him about his car choice when I was at the track with him last and his thoughts are the same as yours. He said the R8 is a great touring car and the 996 GT3 is a great track car.
Cheers,
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08-30-2008, 12:17 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
And great write up btw!
08-30-2008, 12:22 AM
#9
Nordschleife Master
08-30-2008, 12:50 AM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Hey C.J.,
A local guy (very accomplished track driver) used to own a 996 GT3 and now his latest toy is an R8. I talked to him about his car choice when I was at the track with him last and his thoughts are the same as yours. He said the R8 is a great touring car and the 996 GT3 is a great track car.
Cheers,
A local guy (very accomplished track driver) used to own a 996 GT3 and now his latest toy is an R8. I talked to him about his car choice when I was at the track with him last and his thoughts are the same as yours. He said the R8 is a great touring car and the 996 GT3 is a great track car.
Cheers,
08-30-2008, 02:59 AM
#12
Drifting
CJ, thanks for the great write-up.
I think you may have found your calling for after your current career, writer for a car mag. That is, of course, if the racing thing doesn' t pan out.
Thanks again and good luck to you.
I think you may have found your calling for after your current career, writer for a car mag. That is, of course, if the racing thing doesn' t pan out.
Thanks again and good luck to you.
08-30-2008, 09:58 AM
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08-30-2008, 12:29 PM
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I had a somewhat different experience with the car. R-Tronic is ideal for the track. Plastic paddles or not.
A common misconception with these types of gearboxes is that they shift without any driver involvement. You have to DRIVE them. Then they are incredibly smooth and quick.
Car feels heavy? I can understand where you are coming from. I'll be more gracious and say that it feels like it can handle a lot more power. One thing that a 911 can't hold a candle to is the R8's turn-in bite and neutrality. Mid-engine vs rear...not much you can do about that.
I agree it's stunning in person but I fear it won't age well.
I absolutely agree that the fact the identical engine (save the dry sump I think...not sure) is in the significantly cheaper RS4 is hard to get around. This is a phenomenal engine but the engine is the heart of a performance car so how can the top car share it's engine with a more pedestrian model. A philosophical objection to be sure but the desire to own these cars is so far beyond rational that these types of differentiations are key.
A common misconception with these types of gearboxes is that they shift without any driver involvement. You have to DRIVE them. Then they are incredibly smooth and quick.
Car feels heavy? I can understand where you are coming from. I'll be more gracious and say that it feels like it can handle a lot more power. One thing that a 911 can't hold a candle to is the R8's turn-in bite and neutrality. Mid-engine vs rear...not much you can do about that.
I agree it's stunning in person but I fear it won't age well.
I absolutely agree that the fact the identical engine (save the dry sump I think...not sure) is in the significantly cheaper RS4 is hard to get around. This is a phenomenal engine but the engine is the heart of a performance car so how can the top car share it's engine with a more pedestrian model. A philosophical objection to be sure but the desire to own these cars is so far beyond rational that these types of differentiations are key.