Spring Rate Update
#1
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Thread Starter
Spring Rate Update
I have spent considerable time reading all the posts of guys experimenting with spring rates and Dampers on there cars
1) does anyone know for sure what the OEM spring rates are for starters on the 997-3.
2) without going with new shocks and anyone increased the spring rates soften the sways to get the car more neutral if so please share what you have learned.
1) does anyone know for sure what the OEM spring rates are for starters on the 997-3.
2) without going with new shocks and anyone increased the spring rates soften the sways to get the car more neutral if so please share what you have learned.
#2
spring rates
I have tried all adjustments of the stock sway bars and can honestly say that setting the rear bar to full soft feels the best and keeps the car neutral. The front bar I keep between one from full stiff or in middle setting. I know that I'm completely different from how the factory delivers the car. Try it, you may like it.
Last edited by sasportas; 08-24-2008 at 09:15 AM. Reason: typo
#4
Rennlist Member
I have spent considerable time reading all the posts of guys experimenting with spring rates and Dampers on there cars
1) does anyone know for sure what the OEM spring rates are for starters on the 997-3.
2) without going with new shocks and anyone increased the spring rates soften the sways to get the car more neutral if so please share what you have learned.
1) does anyone know for sure what the OEM spring rates are for starters on the 997-3.
2) without going with new shocks and anyone increased the spring rates soften the sways to get the car more neutral if so please share what you have learned.
#5
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Thread Starter
Where I am going with all this is that I want to soften the rear sway to make the car less snappy when I am rotating the car in a corner. I would like to try increasing the spring rate say 2 to 400 lbs and soften the rear sway a bit. but I need to know what the current rate is. Plus I know the cup guys are experimenting all the time. so trying to get some cheap knowledge.
#7
I have spent considerable time reading all the posts of guys experimenting with spring rates and Dampers on there cars
1) does anyone know for sure what the OEM spring rates are for starters on the 997-3.
2) without going with new shocks and anyone increased the spring rates soften the sways to get the car more neutral if so please share what you have learned.
1) does anyone know for sure what the OEM spring rates are for starters on the 997-3.
2) without going with new shocks and anyone increased the spring rates soften the sways to get the car more neutral if so please share what you have learned.
I don't have the answer to #1, but basically you are going in the correct direction - more spring with less sway. If you go to the kwsuspesion site and look at their posted spring rates that they put on a variety of 911s, their approach (not everyones) has always been to increase the rear spring rate substantially over the stock rates (i.e. 400-500 going up to 900) but only marginally increasing the front spring rates - their approach has also been that they believe in using the dampers (compression/rebound) to further increase the spring rate (others do not always share this approach)
More spring and less sway will allow each wheel to better handle the road surface that each tire is facing so as you know this is where the big adjustments should be made
Can't remember the name of the shop, but the 996gt3 guys sent off their stock dampers to be revalved if they wanted to increase the spring rates - a quick search should give you this information and this is the guy/shop that I would call.
I think the shop is Dan Jacobs in CT
Also, just saw this on the TRG website
http://www.theracersgroup.com/shop/997.php
Looks like their approach is to really up the front rate versus the rear (again, everyone does something different)
paul
Last edited by 997gt3north; 08-25-2008 at 04:41 PM.
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#8
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Thread Starter
I don't have the answer to #1, but basically you are going in the correct direction - more spring with less sway. If you go to the kwsuspesion site and look at their posted spring rates that they put on a variety of 911s, their approach (not everyones) has always been to increase the rear spring rate substantially over the stock rates (i.e. 400-500 going up to 900) but only marginally increasing the front spring rates - their approach has also been that they believe in using the dampers (compression/rebound) to further increase the spring rate (others do not always share this approach)
More spring and less sway will allow each wheel to better handle the road surface that each tire is facing so as you know this is where the big adjustments should be made
Can't remember the name of the shop, but the 996gt3 guys sent off their stock dampers to be revalved if they wanted to increase the spring rates - a quick search should give you this information and this is the guy/shop that I would call.
I think the shop is Dan Jacobs in CT
paul
More spring and less sway will allow each wheel to better handle the road surface that each tire is facing so as you know this is where the big adjustments should be made
Can't remember the name of the shop, but the 996gt3 guys sent off their stock dampers to be revalved if they wanted to increase the spring rates - a quick search should give you this information and this is the guy/shop that I would call.
I think the shop is Dan Jacobs in CT
paul
#9
- based on my post above , iirc, the KW guys bump the fronts upto around 285 but the rears goto around 950 - so again, much more rear of an increase
- i can understand doing both - i.e. more front spring to avoid the dive / rebound under braking but also more rear to help rotation and again to reduce squat
- i would guess the 500f/800r would work well (and still be streetable) - but what do i know (thus call one of the real shops)
#10
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Thread Starter
- based on my post above , iirc, the KW guys bump the fronts upto around 285 but the rears goto around 950 - so again, much more rear of an increase
- i can understand doing both - i.e. more front spring to avoid the dive / rebound under braking but also more rear to help rotation and again to reduce squat
- i would guess the 500f/800r would work well (and still be streetable) - but what do i know (thus call one of the real shops)
- i can understand doing both - i.e. more front spring to avoid the dive / rebound under braking but also more rear to help rotation and again to reduce squat
- i would guess the 500f/800r would work well (and still be streetable) - but what do i know (thus call one of the real shops)
What we need is a budget, and a **** load of track time and springs, but I believe the gt3 is and can be an incredible handling car it just does not come from the factory that way. Its set up to push like a pig, and gets snappy when you rotate it.
#11
- with my current setup, i don't find it snappy when it rotates and i have dialled out the push
- that said, it currently is and was when stock snappy if you have a lot of stearing angle and you are in 2nd gear (if you are too throttle happy)
- i am very happy with the car now in all mid and high speed corners (very very slight overstear)
- i agree that the car could be better with more spring and less bar (especially if you wanted to run slicks) but i think you can get 95% out of the car with what you have to work with (and in my opinion the gt2 rear bar is a good fix if it works for your style of driving - i'm very smooth and have only seen the upside benefit when i added the bar)
- if an intermediate like me can get the car around Watkins Glen at 2:16 with stock tires and a good alignment, then a pro with Hoosiers would certainly be sub 2:10 - so the way I look at it when I can approach 2:10 with Hoosiers, then it will be the car that needs improvement and I will spend the money
just my thoughts
Paul
(but i do agree with what you are doing)
- that said, it currently is and was when stock snappy if you have a lot of stearing angle and you are in 2nd gear (if you are too throttle happy)
- i am very happy with the car now in all mid and high speed corners (very very slight overstear)
- i agree that the car could be better with more spring and less bar (especially if you wanted to run slicks) but i think you can get 95% out of the car with what you have to work with (and in my opinion the gt2 rear bar is a good fix if it works for your style of driving - i'm very smooth and have only seen the upside benefit when i added the bar)
- if an intermediate like me can get the car around Watkins Glen at 2:16 with stock tires and a good alignment, then a pro with Hoosiers would certainly be sub 2:10 - so the way I look at it when I can approach 2:10 with Hoosiers, then it will be the car that needs improvement and I will spend the money
just my thoughts
Paul
(but i do agree with what you are doing)
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
- with my current setup, i don't find it snappy when it rotates and i have dialled out the push
- that said, it currently is and was when stock snappy if you have a lot of stearing angle and you are in 2nd gear (if you are too throttle happy)
- i am very happy with the car now in all mid and high speed corners (very very slight overstear)
- i agree that the car could be better with more spring and less bar (especially if you wanted to run slicks) but i think you can get 95% out of the car with what you have to work with (and in my opinion the gt2 rear bar is a good fix if it works for your style of driving - i'm very smooth and have only seen the upside benefit when i added the bar)
- if an intermediate like me can get the car around Watkins Glen at 2:16 with stock tires and a good alignment, then a pro with Hoosiers would certainly be sub 2:10 - so the way I look at it when I can approach 2:10 with Hoosiers, then it will be the car that needs improvement and I will spend the money
just my thoughts
Paul
(but i do agree with what you are doing)
- that said, it currently is and was when stock snappy if you have a lot of stearing angle and you are in 2nd gear (if you are too throttle happy)
- i am very happy with the car now in all mid and high speed corners (very very slight overstear)
- i agree that the car could be better with more spring and less bar (especially if you wanted to run slicks) but i think you can get 95% out of the car with what you have to work with (and in my opinion the gt2 rear bar is a good fix if it works for your style of driving - i'm very smooth and have only seen the upside benefit when i added the bar)
- if an intermediate like me can get the car around Watkins Glen at 2:16 with stock tires and a good alignment, then a pro with Hoosiers would certainly be sub 2:10 - so the way I look at it when I can approach 2:10 with Hoosiers, then it will be the car that needs improvement and I will spend the money
just my thoughts
Paul
(but i do agree with what you are doing)
#13
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#14
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Thread Starter
I understand that, my question is as between the rates for the GT3 bar and the gt2 bar, we know gt2 bar is stiffer, (i assume) how do the quantify that, lbs or what, and how much stiffer is the GT2 bar??
#15
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gt2 bar is allegedly 30 or 40 % stiffer for a ballpark...
I've got the stock sway bar but am considering both motons and gt2 bar.
frank- what kind of ride height adjustment have you made?
I've got the stock sway bar but am considering both motons and gt2 bar.
frank- what kind of ride height adjustment have you made?