sharkster

hey f4 plt, sorry I missed your call but Dan filled me in and gave me the message... I hope they put the 996gt3 seal in there? That one has proven its worth over time. Not many 996gt3's have the rms leaking....

f4 plt

Well I dropped the GT3 off at the dealer to drop the engine AGAIN just went back in after the last seat three weeks ago. They have Porsche NA involved this time so hopefully a lasting fix will be done and I will get my beast back. Driving it in I noticed that with just 3000 miles on the car it has gotten so smooth and responsive. What a great vehicle.... now if the leak issue is resolved. I am still very happy with the attitude of the Porsche Center and the work of the techs. From my aircraft maintenance background I think their work is top notch.

zellamsee

f4 plt -- I feel your pain too! I just had the RMS replaced on my RS this week, with the "new" fix. [The RMS had been replaced in December, but it started leaking again a few hundred miles later, with a dime sized drop after every drive] Fingers crossed that the second time is a charm . . . .

f4 plt

f4 plt -- I feel your pain too! I just had the RMS replaced on my RS this week, with the "new" fix. [The RMS had been replaced in December, but it started leaking again a few hundred miles later, with a dime sized drop after every drive] Fingers crossed that the second time is a charm . . . .

If you have read my posts, you will know that my seal was replaced only three and a half weeks ago using the latest data from Porsche.... and the leak returned in less than 300 miles of highway driving. I'm going to be at the dealer when they drop (figure of speech) the engine and I want to look at the seal before they remove it. I think that the tech did the install correctly and the issue is a design problem. We shall see. I have some background in aircraft engine maint. as well as safety investigation so I want to see for myself. The bottom line is I just don't want to keep replacing the same seal with the same tech data every 300 miles. Now that said, the seal that was used this last time could be defective and that is why i want to look at it before it is removed. I have the highest confidence in the expertise of the tech working on my car it is the product that may be a problem... we shall see. and report. Bottom line is I like the car, enjoy driving it and want to keep it .... without the leak.

It would be interesting to learn, How many of the 800 + 997 GT3's and GT3 RS have had this problem and does it extend to the cup cars. That said I'm not sure that data is available and or releasable by Porsche. Comments

n2cars

My 2007 GT3 had 3 RMS leaks in 2500 miles. The last fix lasted 32 miles. Just long enough to drive from the dealer to my garage before it began leaking. So after 3 engine pulls the car developed rattles which I attribute to so many engine pulls. I gave up and sold the car. No more Porsches for me for awhile.

Kolbjorn S

Alex, so your recommendation is to insist on getting the 996 seal rather than the updated ones?

I remember when sitting on the 996 RS fence, there were so many reports of leaking RMS. A quick search here on Rennlist turns up some 25 posts of RMS leaks on the 996 GT3 forum.

f4 plt

2007 GT3 had 3 RMS leaks in 2500 miles. The last fix lasted 32 miles. Just long enough to drive from the dealer to my garage before it began leaking. So after 3 engine pulls the car developed rattles which I attribute to so many engine pulls. I gave up and sold the car. No more Porsches for me for awhile.
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This is a concern I have and it comes from my background in aircraft. Everytime you take a mechanical device apart and put it back together you are causing wear. So to repeatedly drop the engine in the GT3 to replace yet another seal... using the same part number and the same procedures is just an exercise in frustration and will cause wear if not damage to the engine and trans-axle. I have come to the conclusion that if this time does not cure the problem I will moat probably insist that they buy the car back and I will "downgrade" to a Cararra S . I have always had sports cars and the Porsche seats are the best on my back (several discs missing in the lower spine) In fact I just got rid of a C6 Corvette as the seats were painful for anything other than the shortest drive. My earnest hope is that they fix it as I do enjoy the car but statistics do not support that position.

Alex: as for your suggestion of the 996 seal I tend to agree but would Porsche under warranty support doing that.... having lived in Germany and learning the German logic my guess would be no. "The 997 part is the right one for the 997" would be the corporate answer, I am sure. Oh well let us think positive.

Kolbjorn S

Probably the reason mine leaks! I was unable to drive for 4-5 weeks due to a re-occuring slipped lower disk. But as you say, seats are great even the buckets!

f4 plt

While out in the shop this thought came to mind:

there were some 600 + 997 GT3's and GT3 RS vehicles made in the model year 2007 and I think the count was right at 110 for 2008 before they shut the production down last December. It appears that most of the RMS leaks are 2007 models (could be because of a larger population) but how many of you with 2008 and especially later 2008 vehicles are having this problem? The point being, yes Porsche came out with a new TSB that included an oil slinger (washer) addition to the seal earlier this year and I believe even a new tool to install the seal. But if the majority of problems are with the 2007 vehicles even with the new replacement seal, did Porsche do something different with the engine cases for 2008. I'm trying to understand how replacing the same seal over and over is going to cure the problem. Secondly, do the cup cars use the same case and seal and under race conditions has there been an issue? I know some of this is just shooting in the dark but maybe, just maybe there is and answer. As I have said before they are fantastic vehicles but continual oil leaks in a vehicle this expensive is wrong plus I'm not going to do monthly visits to my dealer for new seals... eventually that will result in something else going wrong.

sharkster

hi kolbjorn, I didn't know about that (thanks for the heads up) as we didn't get the car here but what I do know is the one on the 996gt3 ad 996tt rarely leaked and the design is superior to the teflon POS we have in the 997gt3s. The only two cars I know with those in there have been fine now for about 1500miles since the switch. As long as the dealership is fine with it and I think they would be when looking and comparind the two then I would.

sharkster

Hey f4 pilot, I think your situation is a little different in that you are going back for the third time. To be honest even though I believe the design of the 996gt3 is superior your car is in the midst of a process with Porsche and you should go with whatever they say and stand behind. It wouldn't be wise to give them an excuse of some kind to not continue the warranty in your case. You can always "ask" them about it and maybe get them to look at the two designs and take it "upstairs" and let them tell you what to do

f4 plt

Alex:

I mentioned your suggestion of the 996 seal to the service manager and he passed it on to the district rep. The plan as I understand it is to remove the engine on Monday (I'm going in and take a look once the engine is out and before they remove the seal) The district rep will also look at it and then a decision will be made as to what course of action to take. I told them I want it either fixed or the car replaced as I did not spend that much money to either constantly have a leak or to repeatedly bring the car back in for additional seals. The dealer is fantastic and completely understands. I am also completely satisfied with the techs work. I stand by my position that it is either a basic design flaw in either the seal or the case design OR the case itself is out of spec. Either way we shall know Monday.
I just posted on the 997 board the following question:

Has there been a Rear Main Seal issue with the 3.8 liter engines in the 997 Carrara or Carrara S models? Do you have any data on this? thanks

sharkster

Sounds good and keep us posted. The seal is the flaw and I don't know why they changed it. The one in your SC is the same as the one in the 996gt3 basically. And that always worked.

To answer you RMS question on the 3.8, absolutely. The seal they use on that one is actually the seal on the 7 GT3. Those are notorious for RMS and once in a while intermediate shaft failures too

f4 plt

Went to the dealer today to watch the engine come out ... again. The leak was clearly in the area of the rear main seal.... again. However this time they put some dye in the oil and ran it before they dropped the engine and there is good evidence that the leak is also coming through the joint between the case halves. Now I'm waiting for an answer from Porsche NA but the car will probably be down for at least another week. I was impressed again however with the care taken by the tech that removed the engine. It was like watching a fine surgeon do the work. The also carefully took the removed back bumper, rear wheels etc out of the shop and stored them off the floor in a secure room. The dealer's service people impress me but right now Porsche quality control on a special engine, well I'm disappointed. Of all the Porsche's I have owned starting with my 1967 ( and it was only a year old when I got it) I have never had oil leaks nor any repeat issue. What makes it worse is having it on a GT3 the flagship of the fleet. Oh eventually I will have my fine steed back.

Mussl Kar

I had my RMS replaced last year and have a leak again. The tuner who did my R&P took a lot of pix once the tran was out showing where the oil was coming from. It was coming from the area around the hose that connects to the oil tank on top of the engine. He does not know if it is the hose or the case halves. When I take it back later next week he will re check it. He cleaned a lot of oil from the plastic engine pan. The car is back to leaking, leaving small cookie size spots on my floor. Before the RMS repair they were large quarter size spots.
I autox almost every weekend too, started late April and drive 87 miles each way.