911rox

Hi to all,

I am new to this forum and live in AUS... I have recently placed a deposit with my dealer for a 997 gt3 mkII . This is my dream car and unfortunately here in Australia they don't come cheap at approx $290k on the road... probably the sort of money you guys are paying for gt2s!!! None the less owning a Porsche has always been a goal and I intend to track it with some professional training etc.

Having read through the forums for the last little while, I have only one concern...Reliability! One of the reasons I have opted for the GT3 is for its suposed "bulletproof" reputation...Thoughts would be greatly appreciated as there have been conflicted reports of late in some threads. I am well aware of the RMS issue (which I can't believe hasn't been sorted) but what else am I to expect?

I currently drive a Nissan (sylvia in some countries) 200sx s15 (2lt turbo, 180kw, 1150kg) and whilst it doesn't even remotely compare in performance dispite fantastic acceleration (beaten a 996 carrera off the line till 120km/h before the 911 came back and pulled away) it has astounded me for reliability. It has 145000 km on the clock and is constantly driven like its stolen- abused to the crap!... Apart from regular servicing it has been nearly faultless- only cracked the rear crossmember assembly once (freak according to Nissan) but probably due to my constant clutch dumping @ 4000+rpm and the original clutch even went for 125k km. Tyres that should last 30+K are gone in 15-20k and that ain't from being ripped up either.

Lots of pointless info, I know, but the point is that this car has set the bar stupendously high for reliabilty and whilst the GT3 won't be abused in the same manner, is it good to go the distance? Will it be reliable? What should I realisticly expect because Porsche repairs certainly ain't gonna be cheap? Or will I be dissapointed after having spent 7 times the cost of the Nissan?

(FYI- Nissan hasn't been tracked and GT3 won't be a daily drive- weekender and track car)

Kind regards

Chris

mnorek

Your question should be the start of a long thread. Porsches are extremely reliable.

By reading through these forums and looking at the frequent posters with ridiculous amounts of time on the track in their GT3s, it will become clear that the cars thrive on the beatings.

I flog my cars hard on track and I have never had a problem. When I first started using cars in anger, I burned up a clutch through my own stupidity at an autocross (which Porsche knew and replaced as a goodwill gesture). When starting on the track years ago, I was frequently admonished by instructors to act like I didn't steal the car--which hints about my lack of finesse (hopefully that is now in the past).

I have gone through rotors and pads and had an RMS replaced in a wet-sump Carrera. My 996-3 was fabulous--zero problems other than stumbling from a bad tank of gas once that cleared up permanently with a fresh tank. My 997-3 is too new, but has been faultless so far.

Around here, a drivers ed event is full of cars 10, 20 even 30 years old with little more done to them than routine maintenance and replacement of wear items. So, from a bulletproof-ness perspective, the Porsche is the way to go if you are going to drive the proverbial snot out of it.

blake

Now in my 3rd year of ownership for a "track only" 996 GT3, I agree completely with the routine maintenance comment. The car has truthfully been a tank.

My problems to date:
*coolant line came off during track event
*coolant valve needed to be replaced (under warranty)
*burned up front rotors after 3 DEs on stock Porsche brake pads

Fixes if you plan to track:
*go with race pads, better brake fluid & better cooling (i.e. Pagids or PFCs, Castrol SRF or Motul, better plastic ducting)
*be sure to tighten all nuts & bolts on the car once per year - preventative maintenance is the key!

Change the oil regularly, bleed the brakes, check the coolant, and monitor the cars condition and this car will last a very long time...

The grin on your face on the track will be the icing on the cake!

Good luck!
-Blake

///Mous3

So, there is going to be the MKII version for the 997 GT3???

911rox

Thanks for your replies mnorek and 94speedster.

These are the sort of things I'm wondering about. I can appreciate that wear and tear items are likely to go and particularly at a faster rate when tracking, and I will track it as the budget allows... If these are the only sorts of items I will have to deal with, I am certain that the giant size smile on my face will make them a distant memory.

I was just starting to worry as there seem to be an awful number of posts about repeated RMS issues and pulley problems on these forums and it was starting to freak me out a little. Some posts seem to go on for pages about this but its hard to work out how much of a problem it really is in the greater community. I was starting to wonder, what next? we'll get to 100k km and there will be pages of posts of pistons/cranks out the side of motors? This is a very expensive semi track car... Obviously you guys are a couple of examples of this not having been a prob and that is great !!! This is what I want to hear!!!

Whilst under warranty, I'm sure I could cope with such a prob as long as it wasn't repeated, but i'd hate to have to start forking out for a RMS seal a year (for arguments sake) after having spent that sort of money!

911rox

Hi there ,

No indication from Porsche AG but PCA believe mkII will happen. The dealer wasn't sure and we've both gone on speculation.
I was told was that the most likely scenario would be an announcement later in 2009 and deliveries in early 2010-11 overlaping with the next generation 911 as was the case with the 996/997 overlap. Allocations are tighter here in AUS and I'm keen on the car so happy to wait but this is the only way of securing an earlier (or even just a) delivery.

mooty

your concerns are valid.

the car is reliable. but if you want to pound it on track, things will wear and tear at faster rate (there are no free lunches). and porsche parts are $$$, thus it will be an expensive track car. actually VERY expensive compared to my miata, m3 and lotus track cars. but that's not a reliablility prob. it's just expensive consumable parts.

RMS, crank bolts etc. sure that worries me periodically. but that's what porsche is about. they are all like that.

early cars leak... but porschephile never say leak, we say the oil line "sweat a bit".

SC's and 3.2 carerras got self exploding clutches and nuclear air box explosions.
964 has gasket less cases that seaps oil.
993 has wiring harness issues. CEL due to air passage clogging...

they are all $$$, RELIABLE POS we come to love very much...
sounds funny doesn't it, but it is the truth.

Sun Ra

i strongly advise DO NOT INSTALL LWFW ON 997 GT3

it breaks the pulley bolts major non warranty repair

just leave it stock and it will be v reliable after all the oil leaks are fixed

eclou

My GT3 got a CE light not more than 30 ft past the gate at Zuffenhausen. Once that was sorted out the next 1000 miles were trouble-free

C.J. Ichiban

Ive put a total of 6600 miles on the gt3 and the RS in a short span and have no complaints...follow the maintenance guidelines and make sure you've got a good mechanic who knows the cars really well. The dealer might not (at least in the US they almost never are) the best source of parts and services.

the common costs if you're tracking

*getting the car properly aligned, possibly with new suspension goodies
*tires
*brake pads
*lots of fuel
*safety equipment- roll cage? helmet, suit, harnesses, hans?
*more tires
*more brake pads
*track fees
*more track fees

the cars are quite expensive to run relative to driving a honda accord, but we like to compare our costs to gt3 cup cars for some reason, and once you're past the initial purchase, it's really just an accelerated cost curve compared to the normal 911.

340Elise

What if you did it the right way and put on the correct pulley and bolt from the RS and properly torqued it and maybe even added a sprinkle of loctite. Is it still a problem?

What if it is 3 years adn 60K miles into ownership and you need to replace the clutch just because of normal wear? Isn't this a part that can be replaced with a part that is the same or comparable to stock? Do I also need to put the Perelli Corsa tires in the exact same sizes on again? Are 18" wheels and tires bad for the car? What about windshield wipers? Are the Autozone brand a no-no?
While my car was at the Porsche dealer having the LWFW and clutch and pulley and BOLT installed, our service rep just happened to be in town and asked about my car since it caught his attention. My mechanic, who is the lead mechanic at my dealer told him exactly what we were doing. He did not at all have a problem with it because it was being done right, with all the right parts. The only thing he told my mechanic to tell me is that my new RS clutch will be a little noiser at times.
have any problems whatsoever. As the revs dropped when coming to a stop, there were no issues with the idle, or even a hint of a possible stall because the ECU might not be ready for the quicker rev drops.

911rox

Thanks for the replies fellas and your advice and suggestions are much appreciated. I suppose when you're spending this sort of money and hear rumours or concerns about such failures, it plays in the back of your mind. It does less for your confidence when P offer a 2 yr warranty and a crappy Hyundai will cover you for 5yrs. I am a realist and understand that for every RMS or pulley failure, there may be 50 others that don't! Its just that with these sorts of things, its usually the bad news that travels and less often the good.

I think CJ (and mooty) has hit the nail on the head in my situation. I'm gonna have to find a good mechanic who knows these cars well-priority one. I have a fantastic mechanic who should be able to do all the basic stuff, oil, brakes etc but I need someone trustworthy to do the rest (ie alignment! And parts are murder here. I was speaking to the salesperson regarding the replacement cost of front lip spoilers and he was quoting in the vacinity of AUS$900 each. We're currently converting at 92cents US! What drugs are these clowns on? For that price, I think I could get 3 shipped from the US including shipping costs and still have change for a couple of pizzas... Because we are a small market relative to others, parts pricing is an issue. I intend to track as my budget will allow and have a fair idea of what the main consumables will set me back. I will seriously have to look into buying parts from reputable dealers OS if things are out of control here-suppose it depends on how quickly I get through wear and tear parts.

In an effort to control costs I hope to run street tyres (eg. RE050A's) for the bulk of driving and save the Mich cups or similar for the track. As I will need to buy a second set of wheels, would it be better to buy a set of 18 or 19s and which would I use on the track? Recommendations would be appreciated on an appropriate course of action. I have been told by some that 18s may help compliance on the track??? Please note: I am by no means a pro driver and am not likely to have the car on its limits unless I have f*#% up. I hope to track one on one with an instructor (at least initially)

Also, from your experience (and knowing driving style will play a big part) what are the life expectancies of the clutches and brake rotors (steel) on these things? Just roughly as a baseline. I hope to do 4-6 track sessions/days a year and plenty of driving on the street (won't be a daily drive)...

Thanks heaps for your continued assistance in advance..

Regards
Chris

mnorek

A$900 for a front lip?!? Given that sort of cost level, I would track a Miata if I were in that situation, but that's not what you asked. And, since I am spouting off on questions that have not been asked, it is better to start track driving (if you this fits the case) in something slower and more forgiving to learn cornering and momentum driving--another plug for the Miata (in spec form, it is a fantastic track car). Of course, I did not take that advice from the beginning, when it was given to me, but I eventually followed it and to this day race a car I can cause to be unrepairable and have such an event not impact my kids' college funds. Sorry, too much coffee this morning.

18" wheels are great for the GT3 and increase your tire choice. 18" CCW 14 wheels cost under $3k, shipped, in the US. BBS race wheels are the other choice--for me. See the many threads on wheels, there are other choices.

How long consumables last depends upon how one drives and what tracks are being driven. Hoosiers and race compound brake pads last me a handful of days (2 DE events 4-5 days usually). Rotors last me 3-4 sets of pads. To assist you in qualifying that data point, my self assessment is that I am overly hard on brakes and tires, and not as fast as I think I am but I have fun out there.

Incremental clutch wear is inconsequential because of track driving.

You can and should spend a lot on safety equipment, as included on CJ Ichiban's list.

C.J. Ichiban

chris,

not sure how it works but maybe you could get your reseller's license, so that you could get parts for cheaper...it might cost less in the long run than being gouged at 4x the cost of spoiler lips...I'm sure you could find some way to get care packages sent from germany or california (where all the good parts come from), just not sure what taxes are for importing.

here in the US, spoiler lips vary in price from 180-240 bucks, give or take.

parts of your car that the lawn-gnomes next to the track have been known to take off:

spoiler lips
undercar brake ducts - replace them with cup car ducts! and have them zip tied also


but honestly at 4-5 track days a year, the wear and tear is minimal on the car. mooty and I are doing 10x that I'm sure. whenever you do get the car, the first priority should be to properly bed in the brake system. I've posted a few times on how to do this to maximize rotor and pad life, as well as grip. look up the threads regarding brake fade, PCCB, etc. it makes a HUGE difference.

the main benefit of running 18" wheels is that you've got more tire selection, and they're less expensive than 19" wheels. of course you have to spend money on new wheels to do this, so depending on how many miles you actually put on the car, it may or may not benefit you. 18" tires are between 25% and 50% cheaper for whatever reason.

I personally run the 19''s, and just order tires ahead of time...partly because it's highly impossible to find them last minute (if you get a flat, per chance) and if you look at it like an expected cost, then the jillion dollars doesn't hit so hard.

AllanJ

Depending on how much the import duties are compared to shipping, it might make sense for you to find every other GT3 guy in Australia and do group buys on consumables like spoiler lips, pads, rotors, etc. It might save you a chunk of cash.

Cheers,