frayed

God they are beautiful cars. Though, going from a 997S to a 360, then to a 7GT3, I felt then and still do today that the Pcars were superior dynamically to the 360; I'm interested in hearing about Pcar owners comment on the 430.

C.J. Ichiban

speedgeek, thank you for the new wallpaper!

SpeedGeek

Glad to be of service.

Sun Ra

these days F's are much more reliable than P's! Look at all the oil leak / design flaws in the GT3, and the track failures of the car under moderate loads discussed here. F reliability -- it's no longer surprising and has not been since the 360. Strads have proven to be bulletproof like p's once were.

as for jewelry/bling sub cultures, P has a very strong one in evidence every day at 6speed, and in bling sales of wheels, CF, etc

OldGuy

Watt-- what design flaws in the 997 GT3? other than the RMS leak and I have heard of a couple
but guys are getting it fixed under warranty and getting LWFW.

Sun Ra

we have another thread on it you were there i think

platform seal leaks
shaft leaks
pulley lock faliures

etc

Carnerd

This is pretty interesting. How many 430 and CS owners actually track their car though? Do they still remain as bullet proof after a couple thousand miles of track time?

OldGuy

Watt I remember now Thanks. The Pulley thing is pretty easy fix tho?

SpeedGeek

That's what makes it difficult to properly judge how strong Ferraris really are. Very few of them ever see more than just a few thousand street miles, much less hardcore track time. But even if they are robust under severe use, and they may well be, the problem remains that they're just so insanely expensive to maintain and repair. And also, good luck ever finding a buyer for a Ferrari that's seen substantial track miles.

Ferrari works hard to maintain their exclusive, elitist image through draconian sales methods, and it's been very successful for them. But the result is a customer base more interested in owning their cars than driving them. It's a pity because the latest cars deserve better than that.

340Elise

I know I recently read an article on a 430 that a guy had turbocharged and he daily drives it in New York. At one point he had so many door dings that he could not count them (I think he had them repaired for the article), and he tore off the entire front bumper while driving New Yorks city streets.

He claims that the car has been very reliable.

Now that I think about it, I believe it is a 360, but I kept thinking it looked like a 430; swear it had the huge nostrils.

Anyway, it was an article in Ferrari's version of Excellence (I think).

nkhalidi

I'd argue that most of the reason that Porsches are more desirable track cars than Ferraris is because the Porsche knowledge base is so much deeper and broader.

Here's an example: if you want race seats and harnesses in any modern Porsche, it's as easy as ordering parts from a dealer and installing in an afternoon; dozens of DIYs are around as well. If you want race seats and harnesses in a Ferrari, sheesh, nobody knows what fits in the car, how to deal with the possibility of airbag/seatbelt idiot lights, and where to secure the shoulder mounts.

340Elise

The knowledge base could be deeper because a lot more Porsches are being tracked. This is an argument that could go in circles!

I think the reason that more Porsches are tracked is because there are way more produced and they are cheaper. I really don't think there is anything else to it.

Keep in mind that Porsches include the Boxster and Cayman too. A used Boxster can be purchased for under $30K easily and makes for a great track car.

The more expensive that a car gets, the less an owner will abuse it (track driving is hard on cars), unless they really have money to throw away.

It is simply about the numbers, IMO.

doc2s

my observation is that a lot of ferrari owners who are serious about the track buy challenge cars and keep their street ferraris for the street.

340Elise

Kevin,

That is a beautiful Ferrari, congrats! I wish I could test drive a 430, but highly doubt this will happen any time soon. I have never even sat in a Ferrari, and the only time I got to hear one was back in 1990-1991 in Germany on the autobahn. I was stationed in Berlin with the Air Force, and was driving a 20th anniversary Trans Am turbo which I had shipped over. If any of you know this car, they made 1500 copies and put the 3.8 turbo motor from the Buick GNX in it. For 1990 it was pretty darn fast; 0-60 in 4.6 and top speed of 162 mph. Anyway, I once passed a 308 or 328 (the Magnum PI one), and it sounded like nothing else I ever heard. The other one was an F40, but we were both exiting the Autobahn and the guy was driving pretty slow and was very careful and attentive. I clearly remember looking at him while I passed him after the exit which just lead onto another autobahn section. He was really close to the steering wheel and watching the road ahead like a hawk (which is a good thing). It just seemed like he was really worried driving the car, and not at all relaxed, even though there was not much traffic at that time and I believe we were on a speed controlled section and not going much faster than 100-120 klicks. I could not hear the motor on the F40, but it was really cool seeing it in the wild like that.

We don't have a Ferrari dealer in Albuquerque, so I really do not get to see these cars very often.

Stephen

Arrwin

Yup. You are correct, it is a 360 and it is for sale.