997 GT3 gone
03-24-2008, 09:45 PM
#31
I know I recently read an article on a 430 that a guy had turbocharged and he daily drives it in New York. At one point he had so many door dings that he could not count them (I think he had them repaired for the article), and he tore off the entire front bumper while driving New Yorks city streets.
He claims that the car has been very reliable.
Now that I think about it, I believe it is a 360, but I kept thinking it looked like a 430; swear it had the huge nostrils.
Anyway, it was an article in Ferrari's version of Excellence (I think).
He claims that the car has been very reliable.
Now that I think about it, I believe it is a 360, but I kept thinking it looked like a 430; swear it had the huge nostrils.
Anyway, it was an article in Ferrari's version of Excellence (I think).
i watched the transformation of that machine into it's current remarkable form and Arrwin is correct in stating that it's for sale.
The owner drove the car as it was built to be driven and while I'm a Porschephile, I have to given credit where credit is due. In saying that, the TT360 is probably one of the most reliable Ferraris I have come in contact with.
Not typical when it comes to modded Ferraris, Porsches or anything for that matter.
03-26-2008, 07:33 PM
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thats a good move!
03-26-2008, 09:48 PM
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i can not comment further due to my legal agreement with P.
my mech in torrance who worked on cup teams says the pulley/bolt/drive belt failure is well known and frequent
trying to be objective, i have owned a lot of P's and my 996 gt3's and 2's were bullet proof
Last edited by Sun Ra; 03-26-2008 at 10:59 PM.
03-27-2008, 03:47 AM
#34
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I've got almost 1000 track miles on my RS, and I know mooty has at least 3000. I think just like with everything, you have to eval on a case by case basis to determine reliability. some engines make more HP, sometimes parts fail from certain batches and not others. there's no such thing as bulletproof forever when you're talking about driving 9.9/10ths at the track.
------crap breaks on cup cars, RSRs, nascars, F430GT2s, Audi R10's, F1's etc. and those cars cost 400-4million bucks.
it's really just about the support you get afterwards that makes the most difference, as well as the speed of the repairs and mods. I've been very happy with my 4 porsches- especially in the timeliness regard. I realize that on a CGT, F40, GT2, GT3RS, or any other super high performance car, if I thrash it, it's probably gonna get thrased. I'm totally okay paying for repairs on my cars- I just don't want it to be sitting for 3-4 weeks waiting for the part to come in.
I will however- never be excited to actually buy a mercedes benz because of how they handled me.
Watt- I'm sure you're justified in feeling how you do, and I look forward to pics of your scuderia. I saw one in switzerland when I was eurodelivering my gt3...fantastically gorgeous and mean as hell.
------crap breaks on cup cars, RSRs, nascars, F430GT2s, Audi R10's, F1's etc. and those cars cost 400-4million bucks.
it's really just about the support you get afterwards that makes the most difference, as well as the speed of the repairs and mods. I've been very happy with my 4 porsches- especially in the timeliness regard. I realize that on a CGT, F40, GT2, GT3RS, or any other super high performance car, if I thrash it, it's probably gonna get thrased. I'm totally okay paying for repairs on my cars- I just don't want it to be sitting for 3-4 weeks waiting for the part to come in.
I will however- never be excited to actually buy a mercedes benz because of how they handled me.
Watt- I'm sure you're justified in feeling how you do, and I look forward to pics of your scuderia. I saw one in switzerland when I was eurodelivering my gt3...fantastically gorgeous and mean as hell.
03-27-2008, 09:32 AM
#35
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Lots of interesting comments....thanks.
I pick up the car today. Can't wait. It's raining today. Oh my GOD...a Ferrari will get WET? Oh NO! Yeah, well, it's mostly aluminum so rust isn't going to be an issue, and last time I checked, the car DID have operational wipers, so it's just going to get wet. Hell, it will be sitting outside most of the time anyway.
It's a car, it won't melt, and I plan to drive it as often as I can....in everything but snow, although I'll try it in the snow at least once just to see how it does.
If all you want to do is look at them, isn't it cheaper to just stop by the dealer once a week and look in the showroom window?
None of my cars have ever been garage queens, and I sure don't plan to change that now. When I bought my 1996 F355 in 2004, it had 8500 miles on it. In the two years I owned it, I doubled those mile including lots of track days.
You know what, life is just to f@#$*ing short to not drive cars. And everyone has their own opinion of what is a nice car to drive and which car brand is better, etc. OK, that's fine, but as long as the person who owns the car enjoys it, then who am I to judge them?
The GT3 is an amazing car...just wasn't the right one for me. Maybe the F430 won't be either, but I'm sure gonna have some fun finding out!
Kevin
I pick up the car today. Can't wait. It's raining today. Oh my GOD...a Ferrari will get WET? Oh NO! Yeah, well, it's mostly aluminum so rust isn't going to be an issue, and last time I checked, the car DID have operational wipers, so it's just going to get wet. Hell, it will be sitting outside most of the time anyway.
It's a car, it won't melt, and I plan to drive it as often as I can....in everything but snow, although I'll try it in the snow at least once just to see how it does.
If all you want to do is look at them, isn't it cheaper to just stop by the dealer once a week and look in the showroom window?
None of my cars have ever been garage queens, and I sure don't plan to change that now. When I bought my 1996 F355 in 2004, it had 8500 miles on it. In the two years I owned it, I doubled those mile including lots of track days.
You know what, life is just to f@#$*ing short to not drive cars. And everyone has their own opinion of what is a nice car to drive and which car brand is better, etc. OK, that's fine, but as long as the person who owns the car enjoys it, then who am I to judge them?
The GT3 is an amazing car...just wasn't the right one for me. Maybe the F430 won't be either, but I'm sure gonna have some fun finding out!
Kevin
03-27-2008, 10:55 AM
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03-27-2008, 12:01 PM
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great comments!
CJ,
Basically my first GT3 was a certain citrus fruit which I won't mention, so indeed my view is coloured by my experience which was BAD. I am glad you and Mooty, e.g., have had good experiences w/ the car.
conceptually it's a great car, and i might return when the F1 gearbox comes to Porsche.
Kevin,
right on! F is a great exeprience in all current models and the strad.
I think you will love the 430 as a DD.
I find the 612 the perfect DD and suggest you try one -- once you drive one daily, you realise what excellence F has wrought. the car is an extension of your mind, it just drives so naturally fast and with a lightness unexpected.
my strads are loud and boisterously flagrant, fun, stripped and rockin', but even me who loves strippers and true sports cars can get tired of the flagrancy. I am switching today to a strad through the weekend, as my 14 yr old is leaving town -- he hates the strad and loves the 612 for its quiet elegance...and low profile.
the sca is a gentleman's daily driver: very fast, very elegant, superbly appointed, low key low profile and quite attractive. hang your jacket, put your case in the boot and go see a client. great open road, running up the mountain [not as good as the strad, altho it has much more mech grip in the back...], and stuck in traffic. truly practical and truly Ferrari.
a 430 kind of splits the middle between owning a 612 and a strad/scud. Great performance and DD manners.
we'll see if the scud's performance makes up for its hideous looks [i hate the 430 for aesthetic reasons]. my pal in Switzerland who has his scud has decided to keep his strad as it's more race car for the street in his view [he tracks boths cars a lot]. BTW, he has 10,000 miles on his strad at Spa, Monza etc with NO failures of any kind and the F club of france has many similar proofs of F reliability under heavy track use.
CJ,
Basically my first GT3 was a certain citrus fruit which I won't mention, so indeed my view is coloured by my experience which was BAD. I am glad you and Mooty, e.g., have had good experiences w/ the car.
conceptually it's a great car, and i might return when the F1 gearbox comes to Porsche.
Kevin,
right on! F is a great exeprience in all current models and the strad.
I think you will love the 430 as a DD.
I find the 612 the perfect DD and suggest you try one -- once you drive one daily, you realise what excellence F has wrought. the car is an extension of your mind, it just drives so naturally fast and with a lightness unexpected.
my strads are loud and boisterously flagrant, fun, stripped and rockin', but even me who loves strippers and true sports cars can get tired of the flagrancy. I am switching today to a strad through the weekend, as my 14 yr old is leaving town -- he hates the strad and loves the 612 for its quiet elegance...and low profile.
the sca is a gentleman's daily driver: very fast, very elegant, superbly appointed, low key low profile and quite attractive. hang your jacket, put your case in the boot and go see a client. great open road, running up the mountain [not as good as the strad, altho it has much more mech grip in the back...], and stuck in traffic. truly practical and truly Ferrari.
a 430 kind of splits the middle between owning a 612 and a strad/scud. Great performance and DD manners.
we'll see if the scud's performance makes up for its hideous looks [i hate the 430 for aesthetic reasons]. my pal in Switzerland who has his scud has decided to keep his strad as it's more race car for the street in his view [he tracks boths cars a lot]. BTW, he has 10,000 miles on his strad at Spa, Monza etc with NO failures of any kind and the F club of france has many similar proofs of F reliability under heavy track use.
03-27-2008, 12:20 PM
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I suppose I can chime in here. I did 30 odd track days a year for 4 years in my 996GT3 with one failure - a burst coolant hose. I did 34 days in my 997 RS last year with no issues at all. Watt, you got a lemon for sure.
I also owned a 430 F1 for two years. The car was indeed reliable although I only put about 6,000 miles on it. I only tracked it a couple of times. The cost to put a proper seat and harness in it was discouraging. I sold it because I didn't use it much. I much prefer the roadholding of the GT3 - maybe I am a die-hard rear engine guy. I have nothing bad to say about the 430 and I was very pleased that it did not depreciate. On the other hand, I would not buy another - too high-profile for my taste and I was concerned about parking the thing anywhere but in my garage.
As to the 360 - there have been a lot of complaints aboout the cost of service (engine has to come out) - something which was fixed in the 430. Also premature wear of the F1 clutch which costs a lot of money to replace. The 430 may be better in that regard, I don't know. I also disliked the F1 tranny - doing it again, I'd go for the manual. IN sport or race mode the shifts are very abrupt. In snow mode (what Ferrari suggests for street driving in traffic, the shifts are smooth but kinda sloppy. In auto mode ..yuch. The Audi DSG (soon to be in the BMW as well) is much better.
Best,
Nothing is perfect
I also owned a 430 F1 for two years. The car was indeed reliable although I only put about 6,000 miles on it. I only tracked it a couple of times. The cost to put a proper seat and harness in it was discouraging. I sold it because I didn't use it much. I much prefer the roadholding of the GT3 - maybe I am a die-hard rear engine guy. I have nothing bad to say about the 430 and I was very pleased that it did not depreciate. On the other hand, I would not buy another - too high-profile for my taste and I was concerned about parking the thing anywhere but in my garage.
As to the 360 - there have been a lot of complaints aboout the cost of service (engine has to come out) - something which was fixed in the 430. Also premature wear of the F1 clutch which costs a lot of money to replace. The 430 may be better in that regard, I don't know. I also disliked the F1 tranny - doing it again, I'd go for the manual. IN sport or race mode the shifts are very abrupt. In snow mode (what Ferrari suggests for street driving in traffic, the shifts are smooth but kinda sloppy. In auto mode ..yuch. The Audi DSG (soon to be in the BMW as well) is much better.
Best,
Nothing is perfect
03-27-2008, 12:50 PM
#39
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I also owned a 430 F1 for two years. The car was indeed reliable although I only put about 6,000 miles on it. I only tracked it a couple of times. The cost to put a proper seat and harness in it was discouraging. I sold it because I didn't use it much. I much prefer the roadholding of the GT3 - maybe I am a die-hard rear engine guy. I have nothing bad to say about the 430 and I was very pleased that it did not depreciate. On the other hand, I would not buy another - too high-profile for my taste and I was concerned about parking the thing anywhere but in my garage.
As to the 360 - there have been a lot of complaints aboout the cost of service (engine has to come out) - something which was fixed in the 430. Also premature wear of the F1 clutch which costs a lot of money to replace. (soon to be in the BMW as well) is much better.
As to the 360 - there have been a lot of complaints aboout the cost of service (engine has to come out) - something which was fixed in the 430. Also premature wear of the F1 clutch which costs a lot of money to replace. (soon to be in the BMW as well) is much better.
the scud is the 430 tracker with the proper seats, the 430 is a street car
no engine removal on 360 required and service quite reasonable. clutches are 4k but they last 25k miles driven right [hard, no babying].
to each his own on shifters. i love the F1, and the scud is invisibly fast on shifts. the strad very fast, and the 612 pretty slow but so what
03-28-2008, 02:42 AM
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watt- I'd especially love to own a 360 CS...I think it's one of the best sounding and looking cars ever, I can't even imagine how much fun it would be to drive. I really like the 430scud too...and in the flesh it was drool-inducing. Did your swiss friend get it from Loris Kessel? I went by there on my trip and saw one they had just received in Nov.
The mid-engine certainly is a different dynamic that I'm looking forward to trying at some point...
the only thing keeping me out of italian cars right now is the cost of entry to be honest, and right now I'm looking for a track rat such as a mx5 cup car for 50+track days to go along with 35 or so in my RS. when I can own a 200k 4th car, I'll be picking out F-car banners for my garage. In two years I'm gonna have a real conundrum if/when they announce the second-gen CGT.
The mid-engine certainly is a different dynamic that I'm looking forward to trying at some point...
the only thing keeping me out of italian cars right now is the cost of entry to be honest, and right now I'm looking for a track rat such as a mx5 cup car for 50+track days to go along with 35 or so in my RS. when I can own a 200k 4th car, I'll be picking out F-car banners for my garage. In two years I'm gonna have a real conundrum if/when they announce the second-gen CGT.
03-28-2008, 03:44 AM
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try driving a 997 gt3 2000 miles on the track you will burn it to the ground. my strads never broke at the track, and my first 997 gt3 broke 5/7 days and bad, like tow truck bad.
i can not comment further due to my legal agreement with P.
my mech in torrance who worked on cup teams says the pulley/bolt/drive belt failure is well known and frequent
trying to be objective, i have owned a lot of P's and my 996 gt3's and 2's were bullet proof
i can not comment further due to my legal agreement with P.
my mech in torrance who worked on cup teams says the pulley/bolt/drive belt failure is well known and frequent
trying to be objective, i have owned a lot of P's and my 996 gt3's and 2's were bullet proof
i have 3500 track miles on RS, no prob.
i have 5000 track miles on cayman S, killed it.
i have 5000 track miles on 996c2, no prob
loss count on 996gt3
03-28-2008, 12:19 PM
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watt- I'd especially love to own a 360 CS...I think it's one of the best sounding and looking cars ever, I can't even imagine how much fun it would be to drive. I really like the 430scud too
The mid-engine certainly is a different dynamic that I'm looking forward to trying at some point...
the only thing keeping me out of italian cars right now is the cost of entry to be honest, and right now.
The mid-engine certainly is a different dynamic that I'm looking forward to trying at some point...
the only thing keeping me out of italian cars right now is the cost of entry to be honest, and right now.
we have some pasts threads where we compared +'s and -'s for GT3 and strad.s... they both have their strong points.
cost of entry -- you and Mooty just have different priorities.... to each his own.
Mooty-- have you put a 3.8 in your Cayman?? i have been thinking of doing that
04-03-2008, 10:05 AM
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Sorry for the delayed response....I've been spending my free time in the F430....love this car!
I did buy the car from FoW. 2nd car I've bought from them (previously bought a pre-owned F355 coupe). Ralph Cestero is a really great guy. Laid back, no pressure, a real gentleman. Mary, who handles all the paperwork, is also fantastic. I'm a bit underwhelmed by the service department. The car is under warranty for a few more months and after that if there are any problems I'll take it to an independent shop run by the previous chief mechanic at FoW and one of the best mechanics from FoW.
The car is fantastic. As I've said, the GT3 is an amazing car and very capable. That being said, the F430 stirs the soul where the GT3 was simply a very fast car. The 430 is much more comfortable on the street. The lowest suspension setting is much more comfortable than the normal setting on the GT3. And the stiffest setting seems to match the sort setting on the GT3. It's really hard to do a full comparison yet since I haven't had the 430 in the track yet. But overall, I just like it better. They are two very different cars. Both very good at what they are designed to do. But to me Porsches have always been very competent German cars, and Ferrari's are....well, Ferrari's. Italian with all the good and bad attributes that come with that.
I was always a confirmed 5/6 speed manual guy and swore I'd never own a paddle shifter car....but I'm a convert. It took me about two hours to get very comfortable with the sequential transmission on the 430, and I don't miss the 6-speed in the GT3 (quite frankly, I don't prefer the cable actuated shifters on the newer Porsches vs the old solid tube connections in the air-cooled cars).
I guess the best way to sum it up is that I liked the GT3, but I love the F430. I liked it better than the GT3 within the first 200 yards of road. As I've noted before, it's a very personal choice. For me, I prefer the F430....and I say that without taking anything away from the GT3.
The one thing I miss about the GT3 is the ceramic brakes. The GT3 is the BEST stopping vehicle I've ever driven....by a very large margin. The F430 has the standard steel rotors and they are not exactly what I'd call awe inspiring. I plan to upgrade to higher friction pads in the short term and eventually upgrade to either larger steel brakes or bite the bullet and go to the Ferrari ceramics ($$OUCH!!)
Hopefully I'll find time in the near term to get it on the track and let you know what I think after that.
Kevin
I did buy the car from FoW. 2nd car I've bought from them (previously bought a pre-owned F355 coupe). Ralph Cestero is a really great guy. Laid back, no pressure, a real gentleman. Mary, who handles all the paperwork, is also fantastic. I'm a bit underwhelmed by the service department. The car is under warranty for a few more months and after that if there are any problems I'll take it to an independent shop run by the previous chief mechanic at FoW and one of the best mechanics from FoW.
The car is fantastic. As I've said, the GT3 is an amazing car and very capable. That being said, the F430 stirs the soul where the GT3 was simply a very fast car. The 430 is much more comfortable on the street. The lowest suspension setting is much more comfortable than the normal setting on the GT3. And the stiffest setting seems to match the sort setting on the GT3. It's really hard to do a full comparison yet since I haven't had the 430 in the track yet. But overall, I just like it better. They are two very different cars. Both very good at what they are designed to do. But to me Porsches have always been very competent German cars, and Ferrari's are....well, Ferrari's. Italian with all the good and bad attributes that come with that.
I was always a confirmed 5/6 speed manual guy and swore I'd never own a paddle shifter car....but I'm a convert. It took me about two hours to get very comfortable with the sequential transmission on the 430, and I don't miss the 6-speed in the GT3 (quite frankly, I don't prefer the cable actuated shifters on the newer Porsches vs the old solid tube connections in the air-cooled cars).
I guess the best way to sum it up is that I liked the GT3, but I love the F430. I liked it better than the GT3 within the first 200 yards of road. As I've noted before, it's a very personal choice. For me, I prefer the F430....and I say that without taking anything away from the GT3.
The one thing I miss about the GT3 is the ceramic brakes. The GT3 is the BEST stopping vehicle I've ever driven....by a very large margin. The F430 has the standard steel rotors and they are not exactly what I'd call awe inspiring. I plan to upgrade to higher friction pads in the short term and eventually upgrade to either larger steel brakes or bite the bullet and go to the Ferrari ceramics ($$OUCH!!)
Hopefully I'll find time in the near term to get it on the track and let you know what I think after that.
Kevin
04-03-2008, 01:20 PM
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04-03-2008, 09:07 PM
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I track my 430 (box stock other than Brembo GT big brake kit) and it's a lot of fun. More predictable at the limit than my GT3 or RS. Going out to Thunderhill with it this week, Laguna Seca next week.
As for any of you still believing the drivel about F car maintenance costs, nah, not true any more. I don't spend any more to maintain the 430 than the P cars. No warranty issues, 1,000 track miles, 7,000 miles in all so far.
As for bling factor, at least here in the bay area there are so many exotics and near exotics that F cars are no big deal.
I had a CS before - perhaps more analogous to the 3 or RS, but I found it 1) really noisy inside all the time, 2) not much low end thrust - at least compared to the 3/RS/430, 3) too raw for my old bones, 4) gorgeous.
As for any of you still believing the drivel about F car maintenance costs, nah, not true any more. I don't spend any more to maintain the 430 than the P cars. No warranty issues, 1,000 track miles, 7,000 miles in all so far.
As for bling factor, at least here in the bay area there are so many exotics and near exotics that F cars are no big deal.
I had a CS before - perhaps more analogous to the 3 or RS, but I found it 1) really noisy inside all the time, 2) not much low end thrust - at least compared to the 3/RS/430, 3) too raw for my old bones, 4) gorgeous.