Larry Cable

sigh ...

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...rsche_gt3.html

DM993tt

OK so they don't know how to drive a porsche. This proves nothing to me other than bad journalism.

BC

You guys are really filled up on the koolaid. Its just better engineering.

Palting

Nah. Its just better driving on the part of the Nissan driver, and lousy on the part of the Porsche driver. Half the time the Porsche is pointing towards the armco. Not good.

I kinda liked Evo just to get a different perpective on things, and sometimes they take artistic liberties which can be entertaining. This, however, is off the charts. It's a black mark on Evo.

Wish they did get drivers equally good for the cars. I'd be truly intersted in those results.

BC

Will it be the 3rd or 8th separate magazine or online piece that shows the GT-R besting the porsche in most categories that will allow you guys to get some perspective?

CME

Evo is one of the best car mags out there and they have lavished praise on all the GT3's. This is not just literary trashing of the GT3 but probably close to actual results. PAG has some work to do.
Chet

SpeedGeek

Agreed. It was the same story with the Audi R8. It should not be too surprising that cars designed today can beat the 45 year old 911.

However, there is just something about the GT3... I don't care how fast a GT-R or R8 can get around a track, they just won't make you smile as much as a GT3 does. Honestly, I am in no way bothered by how fast these cars are, I am just totally in love with my RS. The only other sports car I consider true competition to the GT3 is the F430 because that one makes me smile a lot too.

But even the F430 falls short of the GT3 because it just fails to pack as much varied capability, raw fun, reliability and functionality into one package as the GT3. Bring em on...

amaist

They can make a 100 articles showing how the GT-R is faster. If they are all garbage with wacky conditions and goofy drivers then they don't show anything to anybody.

Get the two cars together on a nice racetrack with decent weather (so not in UK then) and with a decent driver (a touring car pro will do) and then run them for 15 laps. The only thing allowed to be changed from the showroom is brake pads and brake fluid. I am curious to see the result.

C.J. Ichiban

+1 on PAG having work to do...

the 997 platform really is 'all things for all people'- at least those who can afford it, but they can't ignore the threats to the performance cred of our beloved 911.

hopefully the direct injection in the facelift or 998 increases the hp, tQ, etc so that the car can jump back in front, even with butterfingered journos behind the wheel.

keep something in mind however- the gtR has 70 more Hp than the GT3. Give a gt3 30 or 40 more HP and I bet it smokes a gtr anywhere.


the main appeal of the gt3 has never been drag racing, but a direct link to a car with an ability to withstand 24 hours of straight track abuse- and not break in the process. this is a completely different ballgame!

You can get plenty of cars that are more comfortable around town (m5, amg, etc) faster drag racers, maybe even around a track (z06, Viper ACR with 1500lbs of downforce) more exotic (430, gallardo, aston martin) or lighter weight (lotus exige S) or cheaper (98% of cars cost less) but a GT3 is good enough for me, and I like the looks better than all of them, except maybe a 430.


kudos to nissan for designing a high performance car, and bringing it to america. but it sure as hell is ugly...

Bill_C4S

+1 CJ...well put

Surprised to find local Nissan dealer with 4 allocations available...naturally with a $20k adder....

Still the R35 Godzilla is impressive....

Palting

I have not heard or read any other GT3 vs GT-R test. I've heard lots of opinions, but no actual test. So far, this Evo article that is being spread all over the 'net is the only one I know of that is an acrtual test, albeit a very poorly done test.

As i said before, I am very interested in a factual, well done comparo. Could you point out the 3 or 8? I honestly want to read them.

timothymoffat

Autocar (also UK) had a similar test last week. Same result. Does a cold greasy track favor an all-wheel-drive, turbocharged car? I can't see how it couldn't. Let's see the results on a hot summer day. Better yet, let's see the results of a 10-lap session on that same hot summer day. I think the heat in combination with the GTR's weight would give the GT3 a substantial advantage. The Nissan is definitely an incredible achievement for Nissan but I don't think it will convert many Porsche people-maybe the odd 996/997TT owner but not fans of the "analog" sports car. Just my two cents.
Tim.

creator8

Autocar one is here

But my thoughts on that one is he had more laps on the track by the time he got in the GT-R. Though in the "ghosting" part its clear the GT-R significantly pulls the other cars at least on that hairpin.

Yargk

Whether the Nissan is faster or not, I won't say, but this test certain doesn't either. I'm slow, but I can tell that the GT3 driving was sub par and many seconds slower than possible.

340Elise

It actually only has 58 more hp, but it also weighs about 600 lbs more. The GT3's power to weight is about 7.7 lbs/hp while the Nissan's is about 8.1 lbs/hp.

Where the Nissan has some advantage is with its huge torque number and to some degree the all wheel drive. It just rockets out of the corners which the GT3 can't match. As for the all wheel drive, it has so many yaw control and stability sensors that almost anyone can drive it fast. Which is what they are trying to sell if you read their catalog. I have one, and they call it the super car that anyone can drive.

It is also possible that this thing is faster with all the electronic control aids turned on instead of off (if you can even turn them off). In the hands of a pro, any car is faster with the stability control off instead of on. But with this Nissan, it might be the other way around. I remember seeing a Top Gear episode with a Japanese car that was significantly faster with the stability turned on; especailly on the skid pad; it was an amazing difference.

Anyway, I agree with the argument that you really need to have drivers in each car who can extract the most from each one. I don't think that the power is necessarily the difference since I have shown that the GT3 has a 0.4 lb/hp advantage over the GT-R. I would have liked to see Walter Rohrl at the helm of the GT3 and then see the results of that test.

But one thing is for sure, that GT-R is one amazing machine which is not only fast in a straight line, but also in the corners. It has some amazing technology to help it achieve this.

Even if the GT-R beat our GT3 with a very fair test, who gives a rat's ***? No one ever said that the GT3 is the fastest car in the world on any track. I'm sure it is way up there and doesn't have a whole lot of cars ahead of it unless they are 600 hp supercars that cost 1/2 to 1 miliion dollars (Enzo, Carrera GT); or cars that are dedicated for the track and may only be barely legal on the streets in Europe such as a Radical.

We drive one of the most capable and amazing cars in the world. I don't think I have ever read more positive magazine articles than those written about the 997 GT3 and the RS. As a full package: comfortable street car with room for luggage, extremely capable track car that can be driven there, excellent reliability and durability, very clean lines and good looks, exlusivity to a large degree, excellent resale value, and last but not least, a car that requires skill and has a soul; one that can be extremely rewarding in capable hands, and bites you in the butt if you do not know what you are doing.

What other car offers all of that in one package? We may very well own the perfect car; and for about $106 to $124K base; it is worth every damn penny.

I'm sure the GT-R is fun and very capable, but I can't image it being very rewarding when the car does the expert driving for you.