Boxster Coupe GTS

According to Nissan's marketing, the GT-R engine produces maximum power output of 480PS or 473bhp at 6400rpm, implying 271bhp/tonne...

...but in the GT-R's official detailed specifications this maximum is described as "net power output", as follows:

*The engine power output values indicated in this catalog are all net power output values.
* Engine power output can be indicated as 'Net power output' or 'Gross power output'.
'Gross' values are estimations of power output of the engine alone.
'Net' values are estimations of when the engine is assembled onto the vehicle.
For estimations of the same gasoline engines, 'Net' values are approximately 15% lower than 'Gross' values according to JAMA research...

...that would imply that the GT-R engine produces maximum "gross power output" of 564PS or 556bhp!

...and given an official curb weight of 1740kg, that would represent a power/weight ratio of 319bhp/tonne!

...which could explain why the GT-R is apparently quicker than a 997TT with 298bhp/tonne!?

So does the GT-R really defy the laws of physics, or just have more power than indicated in the press?

...any ideas???

mamoroso

Very very interesting...

New marketing technique? In an era where a wagon packs more than 500hp and big power numbers are not a selling point anymore Nissan underestimates cleverly the max HP output quoting the rwhp numbers to fool everybody about their chassis capabilities...

Interesting

Jon70

I agree, the GT-R must have quite a bit more HP than the 480 listed. Mid 500 range makes more sense. Just imagine how fast it will be when someone can figure out how to tune it further.

SpeedGeek

Sorry, but I think you guys have this wrong. I'm pretty sure all car makers, including Porsche, quote net power these days. Back in the day (70s and earlier), car makers used to quote gross power, which exaggerated the power number compared to today. Gross power is measured at the crank with no accessories on the engine at all, not even a water pump.

My personal feeling is that even net power is the wrong number to advertise. Manufacturers should quote actual wheel hp which is the only number that's truly relevant - the power applied to the ground where the rubber meets the road. That would show up drivetrain inefficiencies as well.

carrering

GTR's have always been severly underrated in HP. I would bet its possible its well into the 500hp range at the crank. I also will bet this engine is so overbuilt that it can be tuned to well into the 800+hp range without changing internals. GTRs have been and will be a technical Tour de Force. But since its an AWD car it has no reason being in my garage as it would be pointless to take it to the track and if I don't track a 500hp car then its pretty useless as a street driver only. I don't want a car that pretty much allows you to take whatever line you want and rely on technology to save your butt. It would be ammusing for a month maybe but whats the point of driving if there is no challenge. If they made a rear wheel drive version of this monster....hmmm all bets would be off!

creator8

At this price range (I'm figuring that most people who can afford an $80k GT-R can stretch to a GT3) and the performance point of these cars (GT3/GT-R/Audi R8 etc), ultimate performance is somewhat of a moot point aside from "Top Trumps" bragging rights.

Its really all about the feel of the car as you drive it and how it makes you feel--so entirely subjective and up to the individual writing the check/signing the loan/living w/ the car in his driveway.

Any hardcore gearhead should have an interest in the GT-R. It ticks so many of the right boxes--heritage/technology etc. I know we're here on a Porsche and GT3 board but this is a killer car that most definitely deserves a look and shouldn't be hated on.

I'd say absent of lining them up, walking around them, and driving them back to back don't discount the GT-R even if you know its not your cup of tea vs. your GT3, its still a wicked performance car.

Palting

Nice. Thanks for the link.

Shoot. Now I have to add 1 more car to my choices. I thought I already made my choice between the GT3 and the ZO6. Now I have to look at the GT-R.

mamoroso

You may want to add the Scuderia and a CLK 63 Black Series

Stinoo

Didn't the GT3 finish off the R8? Well Top Gear tested both with R8 driven by Sabine and GT3 driven by Stig. But this test looks biased toward the R35 in my opinion, because the driving skill in that video was clearly apparent and it favored the R35. I am waiting for R&T or C&D to do the five cars; GT3, R35, R8, Scuderia and ZO6.

C.J. Ichiban

I'm going to eliminate the scuderia from my own personal ranking system because they're impossible to get unless you want to pay over sticker that is already @ 235,000US.

I just flat out don't like the way the skyline looks. I would rank them as such.

1.GT3/RS
2.Zo6.
3.GT-R
4.R8.

R8 is probably easiest to drive in inclement weather (daily winter driving), as quattro really is the be-all and end-all in my limited AWD experience. But since I already have the same engine/brakes in my RS4...my first non-porsche choice would be to go with the Zo6. Audi R10 or whatever the R8 with the v10 engine...now that might supplant the other choices- but it's still 500lbs or more heavier than my gt3RS.

we should have some sort of lottery winnings consortium on rennlist- whence if someone wins, they have to buy all the cars we compare to our porsches (gallardo, 430, GTR, Zo6, exige, etc) so we can communally flog them without mercy. any takers?

creator8

I'm doing a comparo on the R8 and GT3 right now. Have had an R8 all week and just traded it with a 997 GT3 for the weekend. its not going to be about numbers, but about actually driving the cars.

Having previously spent time in both--admittedly less in the GT3, and recently put some track miles on an R8 I'm going to say its going to be close.

What I'm interested in is what my buddy who's lending me the GT3, which he daily drives and commutes 30-40 miles a day in, thinks of the R8. My money is that he'll trade the GT3 in.

I'll keep you updated. And when I get my hands on a GT-R will be happy to throw my opinion in.

C.J. Ichiban

okay I was a bit overrating the GTr by saying it's got 70hp over, but-
according to official porsche and nissan info:
gt3 has 415hp/ 300lb/ft
GT-R has 480hp/430lb/ft, or more as is proposed by the above comments.

15% more hp AND 43% more torque than 997gt3- which only has a 5% weight /power ratio advantage.

I agree that it makes no sense for the car to be that much faster than a 997TT when it weighs more and has no appreciable HP advantage, and less tQ than a 997TT (460, 505 with overboost). something is off, unless they've got so much less AWD drivetrain loss than the porsche.

having 65more hp AND 130lb/ft more torque damn well better give the gtR some sort of advantage in regards to launches- and it's very well possible that nissan has "out-porsched" Porsche by underrating it...

dtj5

Maybe Porsche should buy Nissan and end the debate....

340Elise

I now believe that the GT-R is producing the quoted hp numbers at the wheels. They specifically said "net" and even mentioned the typical 15% drive-train loss. They could be doing this for insurance reasons (to help out those who can barely afford the car and must have it), but also to allow them to put the car in a lower performance class than it really is. Then, when it is put up against similar hp cars, it will win every time, especailly with its "easy to drive fast" electronic aids. They can now put this car in the hands of capable, but not superb, drivers; and the challenging car in the same type of driver's hands, and the GT-R will almost certainly win every time.

The net HP output explains a lot, and as far as I am concerned ends the issue for me; although I really do not care anyway. The GT-R is heavy, but a 997 turbo is no lightweight either. So if the GT-R is making an additional 80 hp more than a turbo, and about 140 hp more than our GT3/RS, then no wonder it is winning these races.

Let's wait until we get some stock dyno numbers on the GT-R from the numerous tuners who are going to work on engine upgrades for this thing. My bet it is it will be at least 473 hp at the wheels, if not more!

9974G

+1
Very well put.

I would take a GT3 anyday over a GT-R, but not because I think it's faster, but rather all the other factors.

The GT-R is an extremely interesting car, nevertheless.