GT3 & GT3RS Consolidated Ticker Thread
09-15-2007, 06:52 AM
#1
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
GT3 & GT3RS Consolidated Ticker Thread
Tell if this is like against policy or in bad taste....but it could be valueable. on wallstreet, broadly speaking, everyone is 'required' to post trade execution prices to a consolidated database, which effectively becomes the ticker tape that you see showing all the prints, prices, volumes that get executed in a certain name.
i might think it would be valueable in tracking the overall market, ebb and flow of the cars if we created a thread where people could post transactions that take place in the Gt3s and Gt3RSs.
maybe something like:
Date:
Bot/Sold:
model (Gt3 or Gt3RS):
Ext Color:
Accent Color:
Wheel Color:
Sticker:
Options:
Price paid above/below (+/-) MSRP:
Last 4 of Vin:
me personally, i have no problem sharing my info. of course, i would think it would only work if a) people were honest and dont hammer up non-credible transaction and b) if others dont flame guys for putting up prices, whatever they might be. "you idiot, why did you pay 35 over?!! didnt know you so-and-so had it at 15 over". we can take up all that on other threds, but if we dont get guys willing to post actual paid premiums, we might never know the market on these things other than what happens when you call a dealre, he says 45...you say X. he says no way...then he comes back 10 days later, how about 40? ou say no. he says no.
the reason why the SEC and NASD require a consolidated tape and have very rigorous reporting guidelines is so that all the public can see prints and prices on publicly traded securities. i know cars are not regulated, and are private transactions...but i'm not sure the harm to the consumer in seeing th eprice.
the dealers might be upset. same as the NASDAQ dealers who had to dislose their transactions. after all, they are in the know, they have access to the wholesale system and know what buyers are comign to them with.
its us, the retail guys, who dont have much to go on , well, other than what we see /hear from other buyers or sellers.
it can only help. thoughts?
i might think it would be valueable in tracking the overall market, ebb and flow of the cars if we created a thread where people could post transactions that take place in the Gt3s and Gt3RSs.
maybe something like:
Date:
Bot/Sold:
model (Gt3 or Gt3RS):
Ext Color:
Accent Color:
Wheel Color:
Sticker:
Options:
Price paid above/below (+/-) MSRP:
Last 4 of Vin:
me personally, i have no problem sharing my info. of course, i would think it would only work if a) people were honest and dont hammer up non-credible transaction and b) if others dont flame guys for putting up prices, whatever they might be. "you idiot, why did you pay 35 over?!! didnt know you so-and-so had it at 15 over". we can take up all that on other threds, but if we dont get guys willing to post actual paid premiums, we might never know the market on these things other than what happens when you call a dealre, he says 45...you say X. he says no way...then he comes back 10 days later, how about 40? ou say no. he says no.
the reason why the SEC and NASD require a consolidated tape and have very rigorous reporting guidelines is so that all the public can see prints and prices on publicly traded securities. i know cars are not regulated, and are private transactions...but i'm not sure the harm to the consumer in seeing th eprice.
the dealers might be upset. same as the NASDAQ dealers who had to dislose their transactions. after all, they are in the know, they have access to the wholesale system and know what buyers are comign to them with.
its us, the retail guys, who dont have much to go on , well, other than what we see /hear from other buyers or sellers.
it can only help. thoughts?
09-17-2007, 02:22 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
One problem is that a lot people trade-in, and the numbers become meaningless in isolation.
Plus, I doubt you will get an unbiased sample. Guys who got their RS at list will be happy to announce that. The guy who paid up might, rightly, want to keep that potenitally embarrassing fact quiet. On the other hand, there is the painting the tape behavior, which someone in your situation might be prone to do. I.e., "look, I bought the first one at +30, the next at +40, etc. . .and now I have 5 and the market is obviously taking off. . .so I am offering them at +50."
I have to say, I don't get owning 4 RSs. Unless you plan to own them for 10 years and are betting that they will take off in value, it seems to me that you spend a ton of time and effort on these cars that you don't drive, and don't seem to make money on (based on some of your other posts).
Anyway, different strokes for different folks. There are guys who buy art and put it in storage, too, and end up not making any money on it. I hope that you enjoy the process at least. For me, it is a lot easier, fun, and profitable to trade things that are scaleable and have less maintenance, storage, insurance, and transportation costs. If the idea is just collecting or owning, then I'd prefer a bunch of differentiated cars rather than 4 of the same car. Oh well. In any case, I'll be watching the tape in any case.
Plus, I doubt you will get an unbiased sample. Guys who got their RS at list will be happy to announce that. The guy who paid up might, rightly, want to keep that potenitally embarrassing fact quiet. On the other hand, there is the painting the tape behavior, which someone in your situation might be prone to do. I.e., "look, I bought the first one at +30, the next at +40, etc. . .and now I have 5 and the market is obviously taking off. . .so I am offering them at +50."
I have to say, I don't get owning 4 RSs. Unless you plan to own them for 10 years and are betting that they will take off in value, it seems to me that you spend a ton of time and effort on these cars that you don't drive, and don't seem to make money on (based on some of your other posts).
Anyway, different strokes for different folks. There are guys who buy art and put it in storage, too, and end up not making any money on it. I hope that you enjoy the process at least. For me, it is a lot easier, fun, and profitable to trade things that are scaleable and have less maintenance, storage, insurance, and transportation costs. If the idea is just collecting or owning, then I'd prefer a bunch of differentiated cars rather than 4 of the same car. Oh well. In any case, I'll be watching the tape in any case.
09-17-2007, 04:26 PM
#3
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
yeah, i might agree i think its putting too much out there, hence i sort of backed away from doing it. i do take subtle issue with any reference to "a guy in your position might be prone to do" as it relates to painting the tape.
first, that references someones credibility and you have no knowledge of me, my background, etc. though you could research me on the NASD and see i've been ceo'ing for quite a while, and me and my firm have unblemished records. short term gains come from cheating. and a loss of self worth and discrediting of your character.
i would toss gasoline in them and burn them before iw ould ever bullcrap, lie or be dishonest...all for what? 5k more in a sale?<G> laughable but frankly, there are those that 100% would in a heart beat.
wallstreet has snakes, and the car industry has snakes.
to be clear, i'm not one of them.
heck , as far as owning a few RS's, i'm not sure i personally get it 100%. but thats the game. you pay to play. if you get it right and you stay in love with them, in some amount of time, you might not have per se an appreciated asset on your hand..you may...but you may have something very rare, unique and well sought after....
i've owned several very difficult to acquire cars by trading similarly difficult cars to acquire.
unless i' mistaken, there were about 8 low mile Gt3RSs out there a few weeks/months ago. i think there is one black one, with issues, on ebay as of today.
if one had a crystal ball, life would be quite easy. hindsight is 20/20.
one thing is for certain, you have to have a love for these things for sure.
but i agree, this thread wont get anywhere.
feels a bit like back in the late 90s when they started with INstitinet and consolidated tape printing of ECNs, etc. everyone hated it then, i think they still hate it now, killed the dealers....but it was good for the public.
later.
first, that references someones credibility and you have no knowledge of me, my background, etc. though you could research me on the NASD and see i've been ceo'ing for quite a while, and me and my firm have unblemished records. short term gains come from cheating. and a loss of self worth and discrediting of your character.
i would toss gasoline in them and burn them before iw ould ever bullcrap, lie or be dishonest...all for what? 5k more in a sale?<G> laughable but frankly, there are those that 100% would in a heart beat.
wallstreet has snakes, and the car industry has snakes.
to be clear, i'm not one of them.
heck , as far as owning a few RS's, i'm not sure i personally get it 100%. but thats the game. you pay to play. if you get it right and you stay in love with them, in some amount of time, you might not have per se an appreciated asset on your hand..you may...but you may have something very rare, unique and well sought after....
i've owned several very difficult to acquire cars by trading similarly difficult cars to acquire.
unless i' mistaken, there were about 8 low mile Gt3RSs out there a few weeks/months ago. i think there is one black one, with issues, on ebay as of today.
if one had a crystal ball, life would be quite easy. hindsight is 20/20.
one thing is for certain, you have to have a love for these things for sure.
but i agree, this thread wont get anywhere.
feels a bit like back in the late 90s when they started with INstitinet and consolidated tape printing of ECNs, etc. everyone hated it then, i think they still hate it now, killed the dealers....but it was good for the public.
later.
One problem is that a lot people trade-in, and the numbers become meaningless in isolation.
Plus, I doubt you will get an unbiased sample. Guys who got their RS at list will be happy to announce that. The guy who paid up might, rightly, want to keep that potenitally embarrassing fact quiet. On the other hand, there is the painting the tape behavior, which someone in your situation might be prone to do. I.e., "look, I bought the first one at +30, the next at +40, etc. . .and now I have 5 and the market is obviously taking off. . .so I am offering them at +50."
I have to say, I don't get owning 4 RSs. Unless you plan to own them for 10 years and are betting that they will take off in value, it seems to me that you spend a ton of time and effort on these cars that you don't drive, and don't seem to make money on (based on some of your other posts).
Anyway, different strokes for different folks. There are guys who buy art and put it in storage, too, and end up not making any money on it. I hope that you enjoy the process at least. For me, it is a lot easier, fun, and profitable to trade things that are scaleable and have less maintenance, storage, insurance, and transportation costs. If the idea is just collecting or owning, then I'd prefer a bunch of differentiated cars rather than 4 of the same car. Oh well. In any case, I'll be watching the tape in any case.
Plus, I doubt you will get an unbiased sample. Guys who got their RS at list will be happy to announce that. The guy who paid up might, rightly, want to keep that potenitally embarrassing fact quiet. On the other hand, there is the painting the tape behavior, which someone in your situation might be prone to do. I.e., "look, I bought the first one at +30, the next at +40, etc. . .and now I have 5 and the market is obviously taking off. . .so I am offering them at +50."
I have to say, I don't get owning 4 RSs. Unless you plan to own them for 10 years and are betting that they will take off in value, it seems to me that you spend a ton of time and effort on these cars that you don't drive, and don't seem to make money on (based on some of your other posts).
Anyway, different strokes for different folks. There are guys who buy art and put it in storage, too, and end up not making any money on it. I hope that you enjoy the process at least. For me, it is a lot easier, fun, and profitable to trade things that are scaleable and have less maintenance, storage, insurance, and transportation costs. If the idea is just collecting or owning, then I'd prefer a bunch of differentiated cars rather than 4 of the same car. Oh well. In any case, I'll be watching the tape in any case.
09-17-2007, 05:11 PM
#4
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Also, to be clear, i personally appreciate all comments, and thoughts and suggestions on stuff. historically, i'm not a great listener but i've gotten good at listening to people of all different experiences and picking my own path. i've learned a ton up here from a ton of people. some things are things that i've said, "thats what i should be doing....", and other times i see something get done with i thoroughly take issue with. my dad always , listen to everyone, take in as much as you can, then choose your own way.
to be clear, i havent been buying the GT3RS's because i have some absolute or any material belief they will appreciate in open market values. i read markets for a living and make a nice living doing so, but that shoudl be discounted in that this is not my core business, and tim in it for the cars and fun. a good friend asked me to invest in a bike shop. i love love love bikes as an avid cyclist. but i wouldnt invest. i wouldnt look it as a for-profit business, something that would put bread on the table and hence i dont think i'd execute the way i would in my core business. sure, if i didnt lose a lot and had a bike shop i could own, stroll into , order stuff at cost, be around the bikes and cyclists...that would be cool but this dude had to make a living and needed me for more than my investment.
i think you know my take on the RS's. lets start with what i think , amongst those who own or have driven them....i think it is the nicest driving, best handling, most responsive porsche thats been made. to date. that might be a broad overreaching statement, but you know my collection, what i've had etc. 993turbos, turbo s's, 964s, 964S's, 930s, etc. Sure, thats a subjective belief but if you asked anyone who's owned a good selection, or any 997GT3RS owner, i think they would concur. they look phenomenal, they drive phenomenal. There are a limited number for 08. the 08s will have 1/2 lacking pccbs. low mileage pure examples will disappear. i dont think people will lose interest.
will the +msrp premiums erode? yeah, i've said that many times. but fo rme, to spend 20k more to get a zero mile, untouched model is key. why? i just like non-touched cars. i've seen hacks chop up cars in 1000miles. they want to really enjoy for their short term ownership and maybe do more engine damage in 1k miles. i'd rather get a 12k mile example by someone who loved it for 3 years.
u hit the nail on the head....different folks, different strokes. one thing is for certain, when you work your tush off to earn your duckets, you get to spend them as you see fit. if i totally get it wrong, blow it big time, hate the cars, 100% recall on them, i dont see getting too bad. i've lost worse.
anyway, thx for the info. offline, let me know where in NJ you are...maybe one day you can come over scope out the lineup and let me know. fyi, i bot a white one last week, a perfect example. not cheap. but i love white. go figure.
i dont buy they for investment, though obviously no one wants a loser. and frankly if it were a loser, it probably would have issues that would cause it to be of no interest.
to be clear, i havent been buying the GT3RS's because i have some absolute or any material belief they will appreciate in open market values. i read markets for a living and make a nice living doing so, but that shoudl be discounted in that this is not my core business, and tim in it for the cars and fun. a good friend asked me to invest in a bike shop. i love love love bikes as an avid cyclist. but i wouldnt invest. i wouldnt look it as a for-profit business, something that would put bread on the table and hence i dont think i'd execute the way i would in my core business. sure, if i didnt lose a lot and had a bike shop i could own, stroll into , order stuff at cost, be around the bikes and cyclists...that would be cool but this dude had to make a living and needed me for more than my investment.
i think you know my take on the RS's. lets start with what i think , amongst those who own or have driven them....i think it is the nicest driving, best handling, most responsive porsche thats been made. to date. that might be a broad overreaching statement, but you know my collection, what i've had etc. 993turbos, turbo s's, 964s, 964S's, 930s, etc. Sure, thats a subjective belief but if you asked anyone who's owned a good selection, or any 997GT3RS owner, i think they would concur. they look phenomenal, they drive phenomenal. There are a limited number for 08. the 08s will have 1/2 lacking pccbs. low mileage pure examples will disappear. i dont think people will lose interest.
will the +msrp premiums erode? yeah, i've said that many times. but fo rme, to spend 20k more to get a zero mile, untouched model is key. why? i just like non-touched cars. i've seen hacks chop up cars in 1000miles. they want to really enjoy for their short term ownership and maybe do more engine damage in 1k miles. i'd rather get a 12k mile example by someone who loved it for 3 years.
u hit the nail on the head....different folks, different strokes. one thing is for certain, when you work your tush off to earn your duckets, you get to spend them as you see fit. if i totally get it wrong, blow it big time, hate the cars, 100% recall on them, i dont see getting too bad. i've lost worse.
anyway, thx for the info. offline, let me know where in NJ you are...maybe one day you can come over scope out the lineup and let me know. fyi, i bot a white one last week, a perfect example. not cheap. but i love white. go figure.
i dont buy they for investment, though obviously no one wants a loser. and frankly if it were a loser, it probably would have issues that would cause it to be of no interest.
One problem is that a lot people trade-in, and the numbers become meaningless in isolation.
Plus, I doubt you will get an unbiased sample. Guys who got their RS at list will be happy to announce that. The guy who paid up might, rightly, want to keep that potenitally embarrassing fact quiet. On the other hand, there is the painting the tape behavior, which someone in your situation might be prone to do. I.e., "look, I bought the first one at +30, the next at +40, etc. . .and now I have 5 and the market is obviously taking off. . .so I am offering them at +50."
I have to say, I don't get owning 4 RSs. Unless you plan to own them for 10 years and are betting that they will take off in value, it seems to me that you spend a ton of time and effort on these cars that you don't drive, and don't seem to make money on (based on some of your other posts).
Anyway, different strokes for different folks. There are guys who buy art and put it in storage, too, and end up not making any money on it. I hope that you enjoy the process at least. For me, it is a lot easier, fun, and profitable to trade things that are scaleable and have less maintenance, storage, insurance, and transportation costs. If the idea is just collecting or owning, then I'd prefer a bunch of differentiated cars rather than 4 of the same car. Oh well. In any case, I'll be watching the tape in any case.
Plus, I doubt you will get an unbiased sample. Guys who got their RS at list will be happy to announce that. The guy who paid up might, rightly, want to keep that potenitally embarrassing fact quiet. On the other hand, there is the painting the tape behavior, which someone in your situation might be prone to do. I.e., "look, I bought the first one at +30, the next at +40, etc. . .and now I have 5 and the market is obviously taking off. . .so I am offering them at +50."
I have to say, I don't get owning 4 RSs. Unless you plan to own them for 10 years and are betting that they will take off in value, it seems to me that you spend a ton of time and effort on these cars that you don't drive, and don't seem to make money on (based on some of your other posts).
Anyway, different strokes for different folks. There are guys who buy art and put it in storage, too, and end up not making any money on it. I hope that you enjoy the process at least. For me, it is a lot easier, fun, and profitable to trade things that are scaleable and have less maintenance, storage, insurance, and transportation costs. If the idea is just collecting or owning, then I'd prefer a bunch of differentiated cars rather than 4 of the same car. Oh well. In any case, I'll be watching the tape in any case.
