Rickard 993 Turbo

Those ho think a gt2 is a TT with some things missing need to check again, a GT2 is all a gt3 is and twices as good

allegretto

Here's a man who understands!!!

OldGuy

Its hype -thats all- for alot of money. If it was really twices as good as you say it wouldnt be worth as halfes as much.
I was talking to a Porsche racing insider a month ago and even he didnt understand the point of the GT2 outside of
profit.

allegretto

Paul, no one needs any of this stuff. But with >100HP advantage and half as much distribution...I jut don't see it going as the 996 did. That interpretation was just a little too raw for the high-end collector club.

Think "RS-fever" squared when it's all done.

OldGuy

Herman I just dont see it. Its just not usable. and after talking to the racing guru he just reinforced what I was thinking. you can get a TT, spend a few dollars on mods and have a much more powerful car and you have close to the same thing and not take a hit. I dont get the point. If it was 150 base it would make ALOT more sense

NelsonF

Admittedly the GT3's are a bit easier to have fun in but the GT2's are inherently faster on both street and track as this previous thread revealed. http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...d.php?t=194094

The 996 versions are a great value today but I have my doubts about the new one that have not yet taken the depreciation hit-even if Porsche keesp production very low. I traded my 3 for the 2 but I think I need both and will be looking out for the right GT3/ RS. Each has a different, desirable character. Undecided if I will move my GT2 for the new but it sounds like it will be a bad **** and I may not be able to resist (first on the list at my dealer just in case).
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Joe S.

I understand what a GT2 is, but what I don't get is the price difference between the Turbo and the GT2. GT3 - RS 20k, Turbo to GT2 70 or 80k? Doesn't seem justified and I believe the market reacted so with the 996 version.

Like what OG said, take the money and put it into a turbo unless all you care about is having the GT2 on the deck lid.

allegretto

Yeah, the racing guys are 3-er's all the way. Wolf said much the same thing.

But,

You can't use the power of a TT right now. Geez, Porsche guys complaining about too much power...I'm ready to die now cuz I've heard everything.

You can make a TT just like a GT-2? So, how many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? If you hot rod a TT that's all you have. A GT-2 will always be a GT-2. You can paint a C4S orange too!

OldGuy

Explain to me technically then, the GT2s superiority over the TT. You can make a TT 2wd put motons on it put in on a diet. Send it to Steve at Imagine auto-same body better suspension more power.
I am serious, explain the $70 thousand dollar difference technically over the TT. The PAG racing guy told me the GT2 is not worth the delta so explain to me what makes it worth the money to you. You cant make a C4S into a GT3 not even the same motor or chassis not even close. The TT is ALOT closer genetically to the GT2 than ANY other 911 is to the GT3-thats the truth-70 thousand dollars worth.
ANd by the way I really appreciate the gentlemens tone of this thread. Intelligent debate without any vitriol. Its what makes this forum and the 99 GT3/GT2 forum one of the best on RL.

Nordschleife

howabout somebody in marketing saw how much money the tuners are making and thought - 'hey lets have some of that'.

I can see that old time P-car owners who like turbos would prefer the 2wd aspect, after all real sturmjäger don't do AWD.

Typical of this attitude is one of my German neighbours who drives a 2wd 911 with over 800 bhp (each engine lasts a summer) and keeps a Gallardo for winter use. Nice chap, not a great pilot, sadly.

The GT2 is an orphan with nowhere to go. It deoesn't have a natural home in a major race series in Europe (anywhere???? and I don't mean club racing). Racing versions, like Alzen's 'beast', are not as quick as you might expect and turn out to be very difficult to handle in poor conditions, hence Alzen's selection of the Cayman chassis as a replacement.

An Italian speedhead friend of mine from the Veneto picked a GT2 ClubSport over a Ferrari or Lamborghini simply because in that context it was the most outrageous and shocking thing he could do, when you remove the shades and chains he is as respectable as all the other eminent members of his famous Venetian family.

R+C

R+C

ZSA Motorsport

these boards rule! i think i concur with you from a performance and drive-ability perspective. this same dialogue took place 4, 5 years ago with the 996. same things were said. guys who bot the GT3s then i think had a more enjoyable ride, in both performance and economics. In some of those areas the 996 GT2 was a train wreck. i thought it was fast; its value went down faster.

But i will point something out, of all the cars that i wish i had bot, that i dicked around thinking about rather than pulling a trigger, the one that distresses me the most Ray Josephs' 1997 993 GT2 - EVO, Yellow. Did any of you guys see that car when he had it. ? it was nuts. i think i was more in awe of it than anything else, and i had just bot my first car from Ray, the 600 mile 993 Turbo S, hadnt received it yet, and thought it was a stretch to buy something else insane when you had received product number one billed "flawless". 993TS then turned out to be exactly as advertised and when i went back to discuss the evo, she was gone! and i really didnt know how exclusive or rare that car is. That dude who posts up here a lot, the Zicor, (and i did his posts, they have a lot of character) i think has a 993 GT2.
now THAT!!! is car to own. that thing is ridiculous. maybe Zicor can talk abit about it, how he acquired it , prices, valuation changes since...his love of tha thing. and why has that car held its value. a 993 GT2...noone talks of it as a bastard child. i think we'd all kill to have that honey.

i'll try getting a link to Ray's 993 gt2EVO. it was intense. u track hounds might flip circles when you see this thing. and, it probably sold for less than the current gt2.

end of day, while i'm probably the least technically proficient amongst you pros, though i feel im pretty good at picking markets...i think you have to be careful with the GT2. i dont really get it either. to me it seems like a car designed for the crowd that needs to impress a bit more than the Turbo, maybe those who dig the rush of those extra horsepower ,its a beast for sure, will be exclusive with low production numbers...and maybe for THAT reason alone the car will have a shot at keeping its value. but i dont like collecting cars that are just rare and exclusive. i could buy 1950 chevy pick up trucks if that was m passion. but i like cars that drive lights out.

i just dont see it either. i didnt see it before, but wanted to make sure i wasnt missing something. but this is what makes for horseraces. someone'sa seller, someone's a buyer. hindsight is 20/20, and only post-fact will we know. if the 997 gt2 becomse the hottest car since the evo gt2, and one day trades hands at 900,000 on Barret Jackson, i wont feel any different than how i feel when i see Yahoo's stock at a couple hundred bucks a share compared to the $6.00/share it was in 2001 or so, after 9/11. would coulda shoulda. end of day, i dont like the performance bullet points. that kind of horse pwoer doesnt light me up.

Rickard 993 Turbo

It's clear that alot of people here has not worked or know any mechanical on the gt2, a gt2 is more a gt3 then a tt, they are almost the same but have a superior engien

eclou

1)from a collectors' standpoint, I would think that the RS will be on the downslope of the depreciation curve - still may be above MSRP but perhaps getting ready to dip below it. The GT2 should command some premium for a bit longer since it is so small in productions #'s. Buy the GT2 at MSRP and I would guess you'd be ok for about 18months before it starts to drop.

2)genealogy - the GT2 is more a TT than a GT3RS. The powertrain and brains which makes up most of the cost of the vehicle is TT, just sans the differential. The G90 trans will have a plate in front instead of an output shaft. All the other parts are the same including the turbos (despite rumors otherwise). If you assembled a GT2 from the line, you will be using most of the parts from the TT bin and only the suspension parts from the Gt3 bin. The suspension may make up 5% of the cost of parts. The powertrain, computer is going to be more like 50-70% of the cost. Using factory parts you would spend need to spend perhaps $100k to turn an RS into a Gt2, whereas it would cost you maybe $30k to do the same starting from a TT.

3)performance - you can recreate GT2 performance or go beyond it right now with your Horizon TT for about $10k. ECU and exhaust is about $8k, and then lower the car and align to GT3 specs for about $1k. Or you could send it to RUF in Dallas for about $20k. The ecu and exhaust modded cars make very close to 600hp and are at Carrera GT performance levels. The biggest non-believer is a guy named RC on Rennteam and he just posted a GPS timed 0-300kph run or 32 seconds on such a car himself. The regular TT is a 40 second car, the GT3 is a 48 second car. The CGT is a 33 second car and a 599 is a 29 second car.

gete3

Power and motons are easy to add. But how do you easily lose 150 kg from a TT?

eclou

There are well known lists of weight savings made by 996tt'ers that would apply well to the 997tt. The weight certainly is not a structural difference. These cars are made on the same tub.