LA964RS

Nope this is an "all skate" post. We encourge all to participate especially owners.

pcar964

Did you take your pills this morning? I don't intend to buy a 997RS BECAUSE of the issues I have mentioned. I WOULD LIKE Porsche to make a real RS so I can aspire to own a new Porsche one day - unfortunately, they aren't making the car I want, therefore I'm voicing my opinion about it.

You must be damn self-centered if you think I'm complaining about the RS because I want it to be better for YOU. The fact that you own one, and don't find the luxury crap to be an issue, is exactly why we're in this position.

And by the way, a straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position... you absolutely misrepresented my position, then argued against it. If anyone is stuck on a Christmas gift for allegretto, a dictionary would be perfect.

RR

Sorry I agree with algretto.
You all but admit to not driving an RS and somehow you feel that your feeble knowledge of mass and gravity allows you to make conclusions on how ****ty the RS must be.

pcar964

Yet another person who doesn't seem to have a solid command of the English language... please point out where I said the RS is ****ty. I never said it. I think it's an awesome car. But I think it is undeserving of the RS name, because it adheres to almost none of the principles the RS has stood for in the past.

I much prefer discussions where the opposing views are at least logically laid out. In this case, the responses have been mostly unintelligible or irrelevant.

SpeedGeek

I love the internet, as much for its illumination of human nature as anything else it has to offer. This type of battle is standard fare across almost all car boards, and certainly on political and religious forums. Wherever people feel passionate about things, there are certain emotions that are common and predictable:

- If you don't agree with me, you know less than me.
- If you have differing opinions to me, you're insulting me.
- If you haven't made the same choices I have, you have no right to comment on my choice.
- If you're not as wealthy as me, your opinions are less valuable than mine.
- And when it comes to cars, if you don't race, you have no right to any opinion at all. Even if the car is not a race car!

Well, the above is natural and common to all of us, so I no longer let it upset me. It requires a deliberate intellectual effort to supress our natural emotions and some do it better than others. With age and experience I have found it easier to keep a cool head, and I never get personal on the net anymore.

The group of 997 RS owners will naturally get upset by non owners making negative comments about the 997 RS. Try the Ferrari boards if you really want to see how bad it can get. The problem is that I only own one car - a 996 RS. But I am a true car enthusiast who reads and debates everyone and everything relating to cars. It's a real passion. I don't want to just discuss stuff with other 996 RS owners. I test drive every new sports car I can get my hands on. I drive my brother's Ferrari as often as I can. I have owned many different sports cars throughout my life, and only sports cars.

I do occasional track days but unfortunately I get nauseous on the track and it quickly stops being fun. But I just love the feel of a racecar which is why I drive an RS as my daily driver. It may not be a racecar but it does have that feel and it has a/c too. I could make an argument that people who mostly track their RS rather than daily drive it are not using it properly. It is, after all, a road car, not a race car. Certainly I get more RS seat time than anyone who tracks the RS on the weekend and drives the AMG to work. And I get to drive the car in a wide variety of conditions on a wide variety of roads. Yet there will always be those who disregard my opinions because they track their car and therefore they must know more than me. Like I said, it's natural and it no longer upsets me.

The only thing that does upset me is that it's difficult to find a friendly place on the net to spend time. We are an angry species.

allegretto

Won't talk about cars anymore with you but you better read. I did not misrepresent your position Mr. Webster, I was right on your redundantly numbing position which I needn't re-state.

And, funny how your definition is right out of Wikpedia, first line in fact. With the way you write, I knew that was the case. Knew just where to look too. Busted. You had to look it up, didn't you? And from your context of useage, you still don't know what it means.

Finis

amaist

Ok, ok.
The 997 GT3 RS is the most awesome car ever. Absolutely nothing can be done better on it. It is the pinnacle of perfection. Especially, with NAV and deviated stitching.
In fact they should call it GT3 RSR because of how cool it is. Oh, what the hell! Call it the RSRSRSRSRS!
Nobody remembers that in 1973 there was a car called the RS that would instantly flip on its roof if driven by an unworthy driver. Why bother making a car that is designated RS for Rennsport (which is motorsport in German if anyone here forgets) feel in any way connected to Rennsport? They will still buy it.

allegretto

I have been polite with you even though I disagreed, and I've explained catagorically why I disagree.

But two points;

1) If you go to Ferrarichat you wont find folks with 328/348 going on the 360/430 forum droning on and on about how the 430 is such a disappointment. If you go on Corvetteforum you wont find C4 owners going on the Z 06 forum going on nauseatingly about what's wrong with the Z either.

2) Funny how in your list of emotions you failed to include, "you have a newer model than me so I must find a way to bring you down about it". Why the omission?

amaist

Those two marques were showing obvious signs of improvement compared to the previous generations. Especially the Vette. They finally discovered some basic car building techniques starting with the C5.

The bitching is not about how the 997 is not as good as the 996. It's better. The bitching is about having something designated Rennsport not adhering to the spirit of Rennsport. This would be similar to Ferrari refusing to make red cars.

krC2S

pcar964...i agree with what you say about the weight of the gt3 and the rs and it's actually more like 3300 and 3250 with full tank but to be fair i found the gt3 to be much better in the turns than what i thought a car with that weight would be (and i know light becauase my other car is a spec miata)..it would be even better if it were lighter but that's the way it is and it's still "light" by todays standards.. i have bitched about the weight a lot but have come to live with the fact that todays market a bigger separation between race cars and the street cars exists than we had 20 years ago

pole position

German happens to be my native tongue and " RS "does not mean what you think it means. Yes , the direct translation is Rennsport but NOBODY in Germany associates that with a track car...............not in 73 and not now. Back then it was the RSR and now its the RSR/ Cup, some things never change with Porsche.

In other words, what our resident expert pslug964 calls " RS principles of the past" were never any prinicples at all.

Now if someone could explain to me why a soft PSS9 street suspension is mounted to a scary fast 95, not 96 because those are less "pure", totally gutted no sunroof etc 993 ? So the principle of RSR is now degraded to hacked up stock mufflers ? I might not be able to sleep tonight.

SpeedGeek

I apologize - I never meant it that way. I think the 997 RS is awesome and I will likely own one at some point. The car itself is not a disappointment at all. I just wanted it to be more hardcore, that's all. My disappointment is not with the car, it's with the decision making at Porsche.

The reason I don't own one is that I have only had my 996 a year and I'm not ready to part with it yet - I really do love it. But I definitely plan to trade it at some point for a 997. If the 997 had been more hardcore I probably would have done the trade already. So I'm a bit disappointed. But none of this is in any way aimed at bringing anyone down.

RR

The other thing is you can't focus on weight without also looking at power. Ok so the 73RS weighed only 975kg, but it only had 210hp giving it a power to weight ratio of 219hp/ton, the new RS has 302hp/ton.

allegretto

So you feel that they have, and just about every other car maker has too. But Porsche has not? That's a tough call to make.

I've owned every version of 911 since the mid-80's (pre 964). Sometimes multiple versions (993/996/997). The 997's are better in every department, including performance.

I will admit that a well set-up 996 GT-3 can run with just about any 997 GT-3/RS. But I think that has more to do with the 996 having the suspension and mods all worked out and the 997 has a ways to go. Also, most 996 GT-3 drivers have a good deal more seat time with their rides than 997 drivers.

How many street cars in this era of crash safety etc., weigh in under 3K and have 400 HP? How thick do you think the market for a car like that would be? How much should a car maker that sells all it makes invest in a vehicle for such a market? Finally, what good would it be on a street car? The lawsuits over the C-GT make one wonder why a mfgr would risk legal exposure of putting a race car on the street. Tort uber alles...

GrantG

I think that is a specious argument, as power to weight ratio will imply things about how fast a car is in a straight line (or may even imply a range of laptimes), but it doesn't say anything about how much fun a car is to drive. I think a Bugatti Veyron probably crushes a 997RS in power to weight ratio, but I'd MUCH rather be driving the 997RS...