New GT2? Why?
08-27-2007, 05:52 PM
#91
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As stated before..if you want a 997 GT2 without PSM, shut it off and it stays off all the way to the ARMCOs.
I think it's a good thing that it's becoming mandated, it simply means that Porsche has to come up with new and very sofisticated PSM systems "997 GT2".
The programming of the system has been set for very sporty driving, it merely points out your own inabilities as a driver.
I think it's a good thing that it's becoming mandated, it simply means that Porsche has to come up with new and very sofisticated PSM systems "997 GT2".
The programming of the system has been set for very sporty driving, it merely points out your own inabilities as a driver.
08-27-2007, 06:05 PM
#92
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As stated before..if you want a 997 GT2 without PSM, shut it off and it stays off all the way to the ARMCOs.
I think it's a good thing that it's becoming mandated, it simply means that Porsche has to come up with new and very sofisticated PSM systems "997 GT2".
The programming of the system has been set for very sporty driving, it merely points out your own inabilities as a driver.
I think it's a good thing that it's becoming mandated, it simply means that Porsche has to come up with new and very sofisticated PSM systems "997 GT2".
The programming of the system has been set for very sporty driving, it merely points out your own inabilities as a driver.
If you think leaving it on will prevent you from ending up in the armoco, well, I have witnessed many on the track with the DSC/PSM/whatever on that still ended up there anyway. Only they ended up there at way higher speed than otherwise.
So, it seems it's only good for saving people while they are ******* around on the street with their "0 to 60 in 3 second" car. And that is nothing that some autox classes can't fix, and you will know it for life, instead of having to rely on the machine to save you.
08-27-2007, 06:30 PM
#93
Race Car
Perhaps what is lost in all the emo is the remaining fact that PSM cannot defy the law of physics.
If you think leaving it on will prevent you from ending up in the armoco, well, I have witnessed many on the track with the DSC/PSM/whatever on that still ended up there anyway. Only they ended up there at way higher speed than otherwise.
So, it seems it's only good for saving people while they are ******* around on the street with their "0 to 60 in 3 second" car. And that is nothing that some autox classes can't fix, and you will know it for life, instead of having to rely on the machine to save you.
If you think leaving it on will prevent you from ending up in the armoco, well, I have witnessed many on the track with the DSC/PSM/whatever on that still ended up there anyway. Only they ended up there at way higher speed than otherwise.
So, it seems it's only good for saving people while they are ******* around on the street with their "0 to 60 in 3 second" car. And that is nothing that some autox classes can't fix, and you will know it for life, instead of having to rely on the machine to save you.
The reality is better dirvers would derive as much benefit from PSM as average drivers. The only drivers that would not benefit are professional drivers who may find it an intrusion when they have the car near its limits. 99.9% of the driving public cannot get these high performance cars near 80% of its limit.
08-27-2007, 06:40 PM
#94
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If your comments regarding the ineffectiveness of PSM are true then why would Porsche bother to equip most of their cars with it? Also, why is DOT mandating electronically stability system in all cars by 2011?
The reality is better dirvers would derive as much benefit from PSM as average drivers. The only drivers that would not benefit are professional drivers who may find it an intrusion when they have the car near its limits. 99.9% of the driving public cannot get these high performance cars near 80% of its limit.
The reality is better dirvers would derive as much benefit from PSM as average drivers. The only drivers that would not benefit are professional drivers who may find it an intrusion when they have the car near its limits. 99.9% of the driving public cannot get these high performance cars near 80% of its limit.
At higher speed, let's say 90 to 110, do a quick autox style left right transition, PSM on or not, you better be ready to catch the car.
I tested it with argueably the safest 911 platform, the 996 Turbo with AWD and PSM, and on or off, away the back end goes.
However, PSM is very very effective at killing power on oversteer at 1st and 2nd gear full throttle with wheel slightly turned. In fact, it will smoke the rear pads getting you straight. And this is where most drivers will experience how effective the system is.
Then they take that experience to the track, leaving it fully engaged, and proceed to be one with the wall at Laguna Seca. I saw the aftermath, guy in the hospital, track shutdown for an hour, car towed off track (which took forever).
False sense of confidence is worst than healthy respect for the sledge hammer weight distribution that is a 911.
08-27-2007, 09:26 PM
#95
Race Car
I have done the testing, and I posted several posts back.
At higher speed, let's say 90 to 110, do a quick autox style left right transition, PSM on or not, you better be ready to catch the car.
I tested it with argueably the safest 911 platform, the 996 Turbo with AWD and PSM, and on or off, away the back end goes.
However, PSM is very very effective at killing power on oversteer at 1st and 2nd gear full throttle with wheel slightly turned. In fact, it will smoke the rear pads getting you straight. And this is where most drivers will experience how effective the system is.
Then they take that experience to the track, leaving it fully engaged, and proceed to be one with the wall at Laguna Seca. I saw the aftermath, guy in the hospital, track shutdown for an hour, car towed off track (which took forever).
False sense of confidence is worst than healthy respect for the sledge hammer weight distribution that is a 911.
At higher speed, let's say 90 to 110, do a quick autox style left right transition, PSM on or not, you better be ready to catch the car.
I tested it with argueably the safest 911 platform, the 996 Turbo with AWD and PSM, and on or off, away the back end goes.
However, PSM is very very effective at killing power on oversteer at 1st and 2nd gear full throttle with wheel slightly turned. In fact, it will smoke the rear pads getting you straight. And this is where most drivers will experience how effective the system is.
Then they take that experience to the track, leaving it fully engaged, and proceed to be one with the wall at Laguna Seca. I saw the aftermath, guy in the hospital, track shutdown for an hour, car towed off track (which took forever).
False sense of confidence is worst than healthy respect for the sledge hammer weight distribution that is a 911.
What I believe you are missing is PSM is designed to sense the car losing balance at speed and electronically adjust the various wheels to bring the car into balance. In spirited driving, this is a tremendous safeguard should one cross the threshold and put the car out of balance. With PSM, most people are better and safer drivers NOT vice versa as you suggest.
08-27-2007, 09:38 PM
#96
However, PSM is very very effective at killing power on oversteer at 1st and 2nd gear full throttle with wheel slightly turned. In fact, it will smoke the rear pads getting you straight. And this is where most drivers will experience how effective the system is.
Then they take that experience to the track, leaving it fully engaged, and proceed to be one with the wall at Laguna Seca. I saw the aftermath, guy in the hospital, track shutdown for an hour, car towed off track (which took forever).
False sense of confidence is worst than healthy respect for the sledge hammer weight distribution that is a 911.
Then they take that experience to the track, leaving it fully engaged, and proceed to be one with the wall at Laguna Seca. I saw the aftermath, guy in the hospital, track shutdown for an hour, car towed off track (which took forever).
False sense of confidence is worst than healthy respect for the sledge hammer weight distribution that is a 911.
08-27-2007, 11:49 PM
#98
Nordschleife Master
Tell me, how much wheel time have you had with a 997 GT-3?
C'mon, I want to know. How much?
How much racing have you done? C'mon. I'll give you time to decide on how much BS you're willing to put up. So, let's hear it. 1 day of HPDE? Terror of the Track in your neighborhood? IMSA Champ? How much Mr. Know It All?
Enough of the smegma-smearing crap from you two. Neither of you has any seat time, do you?
Your buddy now tells us he runs, but doesn't do "timed events". Hey Dudes, 7 yr olds keep score at the Saturday soccer games even though their parents "don't".
To hear you two candy-a$$es go on and on...
It's funny how sometimes life imitates art. Take your avatar for instance...
08-28-2007, 12:34 AM
#101
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I have no doubt one can take deliberate actions at relatively high speeds to compromise the PSM. However, even then, are you better off with or without it?
What I believe you are missing is PSM is designed to sense the car losing balance at speed and electronically adjust the various wheels to bring the car into balance. In spirited driving, this is a tremendous safeguard should one cross the threshold and put the car out of balance. With PSM, most people are better and safer drivers NOT vice versa as you suggest.
What I believe you are missing is PSM is designed to sense the car losing balance at speed and electronically adjust the various wheels to bring the car into balance. In spirited driving, this is a tremendous safeguard should one cross the threshold and put the car out of balance. With PSM, most people are better and safer drivers NOT vice versa as you suggest.
stuka, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but I think, and there may be factual information to back up my assertions, that PSM and stability management in general can prevent more accidents than it causes. Your primary argument seems to revolve around these "cowboys" that are going to flood you favorite tracks with their inferior driving skills and potentially put you and your 996GT2 in danger from their on and off track tomfoolery.
The fact remains that there are only 62 coming to the U.S. so the odds of you having to deal with a 997GT2-driving nincompoop is close to zero. So this whole argument becomes stupid and pointless, and your persistence in arguing your "points" tells me a lot about you in general.
DMin
08-28-2007, 12:46 AM
#102
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DMin
facts have little to do with this. Its about 997 bashing whether its the sunroof on the GT3 or the drivers aides on the new 997 GT2. He is one of the few remaining living 996 GT2 drivers which gives him a sense of entitlement. (just kidding)Besides how can he respect you You have a cab!
For some reason Pcar after little or no research or ANY time in a 997 GT car decided to join the fact finding, and or hole digging in this case.
facts have little to do with this. Its about 997 bashing whether its the sunroof on the GT3 or the drivers aides on the new 997 GT2. He is one of the few remaining living 996 GT2 drivers which gives him a sense of entitlement. (just kidding)Besides how can he respect you You have a cab!
For some reason Pcar after little or no research or ANY time in a 997 GT car decided to join the fact finding, and or hole digging in this case.
08-28-2007, 01:08 AM
#104
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40 HPDE. Not fast, but not the slowest in the fast group. But hey, since I can't time, I guess I will never be able to post them all important times that all you self insured race car drivers seem to like to throw around. Tell me, do you plan on submitting claims when **** happens on the track?
You just can't help it, can you? Does calling somone you don't agree with names make you feel vindicated? Was it therapeutical for you?
