frayed

In this thread Mjones reported the bulletin on PCCB being NLA.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/344024-pccb-no-longer-available-for-my07.html

I may have to eat crow on my earlier comments to Robin. We'll see, but from what I've recently learned, the cease in PCCB orders is most probably not supply related, but due to some undisclosed 'issue' with the ceramics. Supply issues are almost always communicated to the dealers so that the dealers can work with customers on managing expectations on certain parts/options availability.

The nature of the announcement makes it look more like a technical issue (but not a safety issue) that is under study by PAG, perhaps with the supplier.

On another note, I just learned of a PCCB Gen II 'failure'. A PDE car (I might have misunderstood, PDE was stated but could have been a PCNA demo car) hit a dealer here in TX as a used car. The car had a visible crack in the rotor (only one rotor) and that rotor was replaced prior to sale.

Anyone know if Barber has pebbles in the run off areas?

This is all somewhat disturbing to me, but WTF I'm just going to enjoy the new ride and not worry about it.

Philip in AL

Yes, Barbers has pebbles. My salesman said the following concerning the shortage of PCCB.

<<Got the bulletin yesterday or before- we run into the same thing with tiptronic transmissions.

> From what I understand, Porsche plans for equipment in advance based on
previous history and further projected anticipation.

Maybe PCCB is becoming more accepted by their clients, and in reality, we are close to the business year for them anyway.

Just another indicator of their success. >>

n2cars

I don't have a copy of the full memo. My dealer read the memo to me over the phone and the words "SUPPLY ISSUES" seems to be the problem. Maybe someone can verify this by posting the entire memo.

frayed

I hope I got bad info!

BobbyC

Frayed, stop taking those paranoia pills!!! Gosh, I wish you could see and examine first hand the condition of my Gen 2 rotors after 31,250 miles on my pig heavy Turbo S. And trust me when I tell ya I've driven that pig HARD.

I'm glad I got PCCBs on my RS...and will again on every future car I'm likely to buy. When you get yours then come back and tell me they're not worth it and I'll eat mine raw!

Sleep well...

frayed

Bobby, the statements above weren't my musings actually, but those of the GM of a dealer. I'm just passing it along.

OK, gotta go drive!

PogueMoHone

The wording from MJones post?

"Due to heavy demand, Porsche has advised that option 450 (Ceramic Composite Brakes-PCCB) will no longer be available on new orders for the remainder of model year 2007.

Existing orders with option 450 will not be affected but may be delayed in production due to supply issues of this option."

There is no "real" reason not to believe it, unless some GM has a special line to the Porsche God.

I can't wait to get back into ceram ics

NJ-GT

PAG Marketing are definitely a bunch of dumb guys. They should charge $25k for the PCCB option, so supply is not an issue.

A similar approach has worked so far with white cars and black vynil graphics.

frayed

Colm, the GM was using 'history as his guide'. In his experience, odds to a technical issue rather than a supply issue. Putting that aside for a moment, I'm pretty sure they did see a cracked GenII rotor.

I remain undaunted by the whole PCCB thing, though.

krC2S

not sure what the reason for shortage is..but it does seem that there's an "issue" with ceramics. I was at LRP yesterday and met a rennlister there ( nice meeting you Paul..i forgot the username) and he was complaining about the pedal getting suddenly spongy and said another one at the event had the same issue.

BobbyC

Why is that a PCCB issue??? Guys go to their first track event of the season...with aged, moisturized and perhaps cheap brake fluid...why is it a surprise that brakes get spongy? This "issue", and that "issue" with ceramics...coming from experts who have no friggin first hand experience!

krC2S

Bobby these were brand new 997GT3's and the drivers were a PCA instructor and white driver so not novices but to be honest i didn't care to ask about the specifics of the "issue" because i don't care for PCCB's just sharing this info with others who might care..maybe Paul will read this and elaborate

NJ-GT

One thing that not everyone knows is that the PCCB run hotter than the iron rotors. This increases the temperature on the fluid, hence the spongy feeling if not using the right brake fluid.

We can't blame Porsche for not designing the car to tolerate all the abuse possible on the brakes. No car is designed that way.

The first time I ran PCCB at the track (my car came with iron rotors), I had the sponge feeling on the brake pedal, after a while in the track session. I was running ATE Super Blue. Currently I've two years running Motul RBF 600, and I bleed it for every track day. No fading issues whatsoever.

Plenty of people brings these cars from the showroom to the track. I think that's an irresponsible act. The alignment needs to be checked, a GT3 with an ill alignment is pretty dangerous at the limits. The brake fluid replaced, the brake pads replaced, tire pressure lowered. Then enjoy safely.

Nordschleife

I'll take issue with you there. (grin)

If you had seen the documentation that PAG released when announcing the PCCBs (Frankfurt 1998), they were designed to take all the abuse that came at them. PAG exhibited humbris - the rest of the world exhibited schadenfreude.

Toma Waits sang a song about this sort of stuff (Step Right Up).

Cars get a very very tough work out in the brake department in Germany - the combination of very high speeds and sudden motorway tail backs means that srivers need to shed 300 kph in a real hurry is common, and on cold brakes. Similarly, German conditions have led to ABS systems which dry rotors when it rains, and help the driver steer the car when braking and changing lanes, although this is an exercisr best practiced first.

When I talk to braking professionals within the industry, they suggest that PAG has not managed its PCCB failures very well, other manufacturers have also had problems. Traditionally, PAG customers drive their cars harder than some other manufacturers' customers.

Always ask for a separate warranty, specifically covering the ceramic brakes. I am fairly comfortable putting PCCBs on a lightweight car that will live in the UK and not be a track day dog. A Turbo or GT2 in Germany - no way.

R+C

nkhalidi

Do you have any firsthand experience with acquiring such a warranty on ceramics or on iron brakes?