pole position

CGT's, GT3's Rs etc etc I hope you all realize that PAG did sell each single one for sticker , thats right no discount and despite some complaining dealers/customers that is what a healthy company is supposed to do , make profits and lots of it . The last time I checked if one made $$$ on Porsche 's stock they were laughing all the way to the bank and I bet that every single person on this board would laugh exactly the same if in the same position.

Now , some trucks are made in former Yugo country, the Boxster was partially farmed out to Finland and even twenty years ago they used Audi for their early watercooled efforts. It makes no difference where the car is made as long as quality control is up to snuff and I can tell you that the Finnish Boxsters were of higher quality than the German ones. Daimler is made in Germany , yeah, by Turks, and that has been going on for ages .

As far as I know, Porsche is a AG ( Aktiengesellschaft) not a GMBH (Gesellschaft mit begrenzter Haftung)

pole position

Someone in this thread called it Porsche GMBH............and incentives come from PCNA, not PAG. BTW, wholesale IS sticker to PCNA .

pole position

For the last freaking time, incentives DO NOT COME FROM PAG. Even in the early nineties when PCNA almost went belly up PAG did not help because PAG needed mercy tokens aka 500E from Daimler to survive. They almost let PCNA go.............and you are arguing for arguments sake, sticker whatever, PCNA pays full bore no matter how you want to slice it and that is sticker in my book.

Do you know why Champion became big ? Because they pretty much bailed out PCNA and bought all the various crap of air/watercooled cars, some even a couple of years old, still new....that inventory had been lingering because no dealer wanted to take watercooled cars. period, and were very selective when it came to the aircooled ones. I got a f***in mini commission on a just released 964 Turbo because we could not sell it without giving every cent away and I am the last one who gives away gross.Those were bad times, just imagine now to sell a 997tt for invoice, and some.

icon

hey pole for brain!
pag owns 100% of pcna.
that's a fact, not an argument!
i don't know details of the accounting practices b/t the two entities.
suffice to say their relationship is different than it would be if pcna was under different ownership.
to argue that incentives come from pcna but not from the company that owns pcna is kind of a waste of time.
oh! and if you wanna call selling at wholesale getting full sticker, you go right ahead lil' fella!

Nick

That is not true. Most of the CGT's "dumped" in the US were sold for less than sticker. I know of several cars bought new off the showroom floor that were sold for less than $425,000 with sticker at $449,000.

Also, though most of us are capitalist and believe profit is good, we also believe greed is bad. When the DOT told Porsche that could not sell the car as is after 2006, rather than only filling orders for customers that still wanted the car, they decided to ship a boatload to the US thereby negatively impacting the value of the car with owners who took delivery earlier. It was a classic case of Porsche putting its corporate profit ahead of customer interest.

allegretto

The sticker was usually $444K, invoice was $414K. I was offered one at $385K and after a week of thought turned it down. Not sad today either.

However, Pole's point is that the invoice is what the invoice is and that, along with the back door incentives is what amounts to "sticker" for Porsche. Before you try to paint Porsche as "greedy" (and in fact there is nothing wrong with that either, but that's another story) keep in mind that Porsche has bought back many of the C-GT's languishing in the US at sticker ($414K, that is) because that's a bargin in Europe.

Lord above, there is so much hostility and name calling here directed at Porsche because they are profitable, or they charge "too much" or they intentionally don't produce enough cars.

Sounds like the Woody Allen line, about how his aunt hates a particular restraunt because, "the food is bad, and the portions are too small"

Guys, go buy a Corvette or Ferrari or BMW or whatever else if you're so PO'ed about the way Porsche conducts business. No one has a gun to your head. You're free to spend where ever you like.

For myself, I admire the cars, and I have to love a company that went from near-ruin to top of the heap based on producing a superior product and distributing it smartly. Nothing dishonest or illegal, they just went out and played well "by the rules". That's not "unfair" or any of the other BS in my book.

Likemystoppie?

Well said Allegretto!

normank

You should just put your avatar on Pole Position. That should either calm him down or finish him off. There's a lot of heat here and not much light. Porsche (with all the letters that follow) is in business to make money and have the resources to produce the 997 GT3 and RS and beyond. The idea that a company has to draw a straight line diagram and stick to it no matter what the current environment is just poor business. Mistakes are going to happen and you have to have the good sense to learn each lesson (good or bad) and move on. Looks like they are doing well overall. Let's hope they do not take a path for short term reward and forsake the long term goal of being the best.

Nick

You are missing the point. Everyone would like to see their favorite car company be profitable. That is not the issue. Porsche is exploiting its goodwill among its devoted customer base all in the name of "we must do this to remain independent". Hogwash!

Knowing they have (excuse the expression) 'customers roped and tied' Porsche literally does whatever it wants to them and knows there will be little or no consequence. Just look at some of the posts in the thread. Porschephiles like yourself are coming to its defense despite clear evidence that they took advantage of many of them.

Every sophisticated car buyer recognizes that car companies will to some extent take advantage. Some do more than others. When that happens the customer should speak out and not acquiesce. Bowing down on your knees like many have done here to perpetuate a sport car has the situation *** backward. Porsche should be bowing down to you/us.

///Mous3

Most people misunderstood how "Premium Brand" operate.

yellowmz3

I agree with the consensus: Porsche, like every other car company, is in the business of making money. To their credit, they've done exceptionally well. What American company wouldn't want to be in their position. I believe that if Porsche sells out the '07 RS, they'll likely go into '08. Why wouldn't they? Yeah, for the 229 (or so) owners, some of the uniqueness will dissapate, on the other hand, more people can enjoy the car. Of all the cars I've owned, I can honestly say I've never bought one as an "investment", I bought it to have fun and drive it. I imagine that some RS owners will stick the car in their living room and watch it, but most will do what Porsche intended: Drive the '****' out of it. And remember, the more miles you put on it, the lower the value, a dilemma for some, I guess. My philosophy: Buy it and drive it. Life is short, stop worrying about how many they're making, selling... Have fun with it.

icon

you know mr sophistication, you're right!
i need to start buying ferrari's.
let's see . . .
ferrari's cost twice as much and more.
you have to brown nose one of their dealers.
in most cases you have to buy cars you don't want prior to being able to order one you do want.
of course when you finally get to order cars you do want you are at the bottom of the list so have to wait a while.
you have to sign contracts that if you resell the car w/in a year it will be back to the purchasing dealer.
if you dont trade your car back to the dealer losing the possible gain from resale value you go back to the bottom of the list if you stay on the list at all.
your maintenance costs are out of this world.
and the car is inferior to the less expensive porsche.
what a deal!!!

allegretto

With more than due respect, when I hear someone say that when the "point" is as simple as this one I have to wonder;

Are you a intellectual midget for thinking someone can actually "miss" the point? Or do you just go thru life imagining that everyone else is stupid and you're the only smart one? In which case you can only claim slightly higher ground than if the first case applies.

No, I think it is You that is failing to understand the real point;

If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere.

Terms like "greed", "fair" and let's throw in the "D"-word are for people who are so self-absorbed that they feel they can actually determine the way a "free market" should be...AS IF!

Porsche has customers "roped and tied"? They "took advantage" of me? Gimme a hit off that bong, would 'ya?

Further, you declare that I am coming to Porsche's defense. This is again, an unwashed analysis of the "point". I am not defending Porsche alone. I am defending the system where you get what you want if you pay for it.

When people start deciding on such subjective issues, invariably it is a gossamer veil hiding the real greed; "I want it and you should give it to me because...well, because!"

I hate to get political, but this is the thinking behind the bread and circuses the Democratic Party has been laying out for years, and it's popular. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to pay $20K for my RS. But it ain't gonna happen. So I have a choice, pony up, or don't. That's simple, and I like it.

If someone is making as exciting a vehicle for less, screw Porsche, I'll go buy that. I'm no apologist for anyone, as I see it, I can't get more car for less. YMMV.

But please, any time in the future, don't resort to silly left-handed put downs when someone's opinion is not the same as yours.

I do understand, I just don't agree.

Crazy Canuck

Nick

Somehow you view it an insult because someone believes you missed a point? What type of intellectual arrogance is that?

Hey, let Porsche do to you as it did to the original CGT owners. I could care less. As one poster stated, who cares just drive the **** out of the car. But in doing so please understand you are bending over and grabbing your ankles just the way Porsche likes it loyal customers.

Jeff, envy of Ferrari owners is beneath you.