mooty

i hope so.
i am 3 seconds off my cays pace.

frayed

Mooty and others keepers of the fu, I don't think this thread needs to go any more off topic than it has. I admire the loti for having the sack to bring a track day toy into the US, where generally such cars are hard to sell. They are lotus though; I have a hard time getting terribly excited about them. From my limited data points, they are don't perform on track commensurate with the compromises that one makes buying these cars. I demand better from a car that has no redeeming features for road use.

Looking at segment times in the R&T comparo (same track, same driver), the Boxster was faster in most places and turned a faster lap. The Elise is just not as developed as porsches. Observations at my local track, which admittedly is a high hp track show the support what the mags found.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....page_number=13

I was on the wait list for the Elise. I put my money down and waited months for their US debut. I read everything I could find on the net, and hung out at the local dealer on Fridays with a six pack. When the demos finally hit, I was underwhelmed and did not follow through with the purchase. However, when these things drop below 30k, maybe I can put up with the grating engine, sloppy shifter, poor pedal placement, and get the thing dialed in for on limit handling.

Anyway, the point is that if Porsche decided to built a car with the same purpose and narrow scope of appeal and purpose as the loti, it would be outstanding. This is what the RS should have been IMO.

Carrera GT

That's a quick and expensive 166lbs, but it's more like:

sunroof : 20lb
GT3 seats : 44lb
battery : 10lb
wheels : 30lb

=~100lb

Each 997 GT3 Sports seat weighs 52lbs. The 996 GT3 seat weighs 30lbs. Saving 22lbs each.

What are the specs on the RS98's? Champion is making new wheels, I wonder if they'll still need spacers?

For $1K you could go to Ti wheel bolts, which is madness ... but appealing.

Lots of conventional options that can be DIY.

Pull all the speakers and heat unit?
Took kit?
Two rear shelf carpet pieces (a pound or two each.)

I'd say the gains could be in the lighter wheel carriers of the RS at the exotic end along with PCCBs.

The exhaust system is huge and could be removed and replaced with whatever is on the Cup or RSR (equivalent, not the actual pieces ... just for sake of price.)

If the US RS really has a lighter rear window, that could shed some pounds.

Of what you've noted, the lightweight flywheel is probably your best move along with seats.

There is a body shop around here hat does the race cars -- they're very familiar with removing the whole sunroof and liner and replacing it with a factory roof panel and head liner. It's about $1K for head-liner, another $300 for the metal and probably $1-2K for labor and paint. That would make for a very distinctive 997 GT3 ...

NJ-GT

The front and rear uprights for the 997 GT3 and GT3 RS are the same this time (per the parts catalog). However, the front uprights are different between PCCB and conventional brakes.

I saved 24 lbs with the Braille battery (11 lbs). Braille has a new 6 lbs battery, so you can save another 5 lbs.

For the roof, why do metal when you can do this:



996 and 997 solid roof panel is the same. They're different parts if ordered with the hole.

grussell

I was told by my race shop (911 Design) that the replacement of the roof saves about 45lbs. They have done several 996's and they will be doing my 997 in a few days. If it's 20lbs I'll be happy, if it's 45 I'll be even happier.

I have the powered adaptive seats which I believe are much heavier than the manual seats. I guessed at the weight, but I will know very soon.

Factory 997 GT3 Wheels

8.5x19"
24 lbs. 5 oz.

12x19"
30 lbs. 13 oz.

Champion RS98

9x19"
19 lbs.

12x19"
20 lbs. 6 oz.

The rears do not require spacers

I have the Ti bolts.

Also, I am replacing the rear bumper with a euro unit (no bumperettes)

Carrera GT

If the seats are much heavier than the Sports seats, you'll never find out because you'll never be able to lift the things to get them out of the car ... : )

grussell

That's why we are taking the roof off! LOL!

NJ-GT

Garrett, please do the Carbon roof, so I can buy your car when it goes for sale.

Those Champion wheels are very light and beautiful. They're my #1 choice of wheels for a 997.

grussell

How does a carbon roof attach to the structure?

krC2S

if i were changing the roof i would go for CF too to make it more worthwhile

Alan Smithee

Thought I'd 'weigh' in here...

I pulled out an old copy of Car and Driver...the 996GT3 with PCCBs they compared to the Ford GT and F360CS a few years ago had a curb weight (full tank of fuel) of 3,219lbs; the 997GT3 with PCCBs in the current issue has a curb weight of 3,240lbs.

Considering the 997 has a sunroof, more sound deadening, stiffer and stronger structure, larger wheels/tires and bodywork, etc., I was pleasantly surprised.

Say what you will about the car mags, but Car and Driver does pride itself in accurate test figures.

mitch236

My take on this is to only modify the car in a way that it can be brought back to stock. Once you start changing out roof panels and re-painting body parts, you lower the value. An alternative to replacing the roof would be to simply remove the motor and gearing and clamp the sunroof shut. You would save some weight and preserve the resalability of the car. Or better yet, just buy a cup car or at least an RS.

grussell

replacing the roof with a new steel roof is not that big of a project and it is done quite often. I want to take out the sunroof just to be unique, save weight and make room for the roll bar. I am not concerned with resale, but I doubt it will hurt.

I have a 2005 996 Cup car.

I am not sold on the flashy, racer look of the RS, but that may change with time. My GT3 will be just as good if not better than an RS for less money.

RR

Finally!..Some sense has come to this string and this board. Let's hope all the ninny-ing will stop over the weight issues.

When talking about weights, no one has mentioned that the 997GT3 is torsionally stiffer by 8% over the old GT3 and the flexural stiffness is up by 40% over the old car (EVO June 2006 Pg 82). So even if the new car is heavier than the old car (which it is not), it is stucturally more sound it it is this that contributes to the new car's superiority on the track.

This argument has morphed from Porsche not being honest with its weights (which is not true) to now being a string about how heavy the new GT3 is vs the old one (again not true).

Excellence compared the 997GT3 (with sunroof) to a stripped out 996GT3 at the track and found the 997GT3 to be faster.
So basically if 996GT3 owners want to beat this new 997GT3 THEY are going to have to strip more out of the old car. So shouldn't the argument now be about what needs to be torn out of the 996GT3 to make it beat a 997GT3 at the track and NOT about what needs to be taken out of the 997GT3? I dont get the logic.

To me it's obvious the 997GT3 doesn't need to lose anything in it, if it can already beat a stripped out 996GT3.

allegretto

So let's say we go out to a watering hole one night and there are two women at the bar. Both are of "generous" proportions but one has larger accoutriments between her navel and neck. Is she "better" because she has something a little better, or do we leave and go looking at a different bar?

The fact is that 3200 lbs is too darn much massXgravity for a proper track car! Street beast, OK. But not for a serious track car. Oh, I know I know...get a Cup Car. That's fine and all, but some want an honest road/track car.

Over on the TT side, the car catches a lot of flack for being only a couple hundred pounds more. Here we see folks giving a truly overstuffed vehicle a pass. And we haven't even begun to talk about the issues of elctronic countermeasures and what that does to the image of a track car.

"Yeah, she's all racer", if you don't count PASM, PSM etc.

For those of you who want to seriously track your 997 GT-3's, how are you going to do that? Have a "assist disabled" league? I'm just not sure how these helpers are going to be rolled into the formula. Anyone already know?